Why Milwaukee Mile Stadium Isn’t a Crazy Idea for MLS
When the news broke yesterday about plans in Milwaukee to host an MLS team at Milwaukee Mile, the oldest operating motor speedway in the world (according to Wikipedia), the soccer blogosphere and Bigsoccer posters all had a moment of rare unity: utter madness, they cried! Bad enough we’ve had to watch soccer games at football stadiums or where running tracks ring the pitch, but inside a NASCAR track? Everyone will laugh at MLS again!
But what if it’s actually not a bad idea? Call me crazy, but read on for new details on the proposal, as they haven’t been correctly understood so far.
At first, my reaction was negative too. The original story is not very clear on the details about how it would actually work, and with the speed blogs move, any ambiguity can quickly build on itself. So I can’t blame the bloggers for jumping on it. But then I remembered who one of the key figures behind the Milwaukee MLS expansion drive is: Peter Wilt, former Fire GM and all-around fan favourite here in Chicago to this day, still often seen in Section 8 during games two years on from his unjustified firing by AEG.
It seemed highly unlikely to me that Peter would be behind something so fan unfriendly as placing supporters a full racing track’s distance away from the field.
And he’s not. I mean, he’s behind the plan, but somewhere between the original news article’s lack of clarity and the blogosphere’s negative reactions to the supposed idea, the true plans have been misconstrued and spread like wildfire. Peter has squashed the belief that the pitch would be ringed by a racetrack, as he posted the following comment on the Offside Rules blog himself:
The stadium/field would NOT be in the middle of the infield (except on race days). On game days, the field would be flush against the main grandstand with 10k additional seats surrounding the field, which would move in and out to allow racing similar to the AZ Cardinals U. of Phoenix Stadium. It would be upgraded to include a canopy roof over most of the main grandstand, 20+ luxury suites, a stadium club overlooking the field, permanent concession, merchandise and restroom facilities. It would be a more intimate and permanent feeling stadium than BMO Field in TO.
I’ve since seen a preliminary design for the stadium by a Milwaukee architecture firm. It actually looks pretty cool: three of the sides — including the main grandstand — are mere yards from the pitch, and the fourth not much further. Most of the stadium is covered in some way, and this would give it a cosy feel. And it’s certainly not a dull cookie-cutter-stadium.
It’s also not perfect: it’s slightly odd how the main grandstand extends way beyond the soccer field on one side, for sure. Yet neither of the past two new MLS stadiums that I’ve been too have struck me as being flawless either. Toronto’s BMO Field is certainly a nice stadium in itself and the fans have created a good atmosphere, but even they have admitted it’s not perfect, due to the lack of covering and artificial turf, for example.
Nor is the Fire’s Toyota Park, the house that Peter helped build himself, ideal either: I don’t much like the “stage end” (though obviously AEG do, for entertainment purposes) but it’s still a very good ground, and much more suitable than playing at Soldier Field. BMO Field has a better location than Toyota Park, but Toyota Park’s better constructed; Milwaukee’s stadium (actually, it would be in West Allis, WI, a few miles from downtown Milwaukee) would likely be in the same class as those recently built soccer specific stadia, with some things better and some things worse.
It would not be a disgrace to MLS by any means. It is far from being a step back to the days of gridiron lines and cavernous empty stands. The pitch would be mainly used for soccer, I presume, and there would not be any large gaps between supporters and the game taking place. And remember, San Jose have just been awarded expansion without a soccer-specific-stadium definitely lined up and with a rather confusing plan to play around the Bay Area in the meantime, meaning that’s apparently not a deal-breaker for MLS right now.
So what’s the problem now all that’s clarified? If there is one, could it be the association with NASCAR by using the same venue for racing and soccer? Some American cultural niceties still escape me, so I’ll leave that for you readers to comment on. What other concerns remain
I do suggest people keep an open mind for now, until all the details come out, and it’s perfectly proper that MLS are allowing further exploration of the idea. Remember, Milwaukee still needs a lead investor, but this plan would be a far, far cheaper option than building a new stadium downtown, hence making MLS expansion there more likely than before in terms of finding the money needed to make it happen (though it’s still a long shot).
And as a Fire fan myself, I love the idea of a local rivalry and away days in Milwaukee. Hell, I’d even sit through a NASCAR race first if that were the price.
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Thomas Dunmore
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- Peter Wilt and Milwaukee Expansion - Off the field - The Offside - Chicago Fire MLS Soccer Blog
- Daily Dose 07.31.07 - World Football - The Offside - Soccer News and Opinion from leagues around the world
- Pitch Invasion · Soccer and American Talk Radio
“The plan would call for the Milwaukee Mile group, which has control of the famed raceway, to sub-lease the infield to the soccer group. In that way, Greenberg believes, the Milwaukee Mile would be able to generate more revenue for itself.”
As long as that’s true, I think this is absolutely nuts. And low down on the priority list as well. Although I have to say, I’d love to see those plans just for curiousity’s sake.
What is nuts about it, exactly, Max? I keep reading how it’s nuts — but I don’t see how it’s less nuts than other teams using baseball or football stadiums, and from the plans, it looks a lot more homely (obviously you have to trust me on the last part).
Regarding the priority usage, the MM currently only hosts three major races a year. Regarding the economics, the construction costs would be a fraction of building a stadium from scratch, there are no real estate taxes on state property, there is more than enough parking and there are other economic incentives involved that would NOT include any new taxes, regarding location, the site borders the city of Milwaukee’s west side, is two miles west of Miller Park, six miles west of downtown, about two miles east of the geographic center of the metropolitan market, is accessible by public transportation, is on the busiest interstate highway section in the state and has two highway exits within half a mile, regarding quality of stadium, as stated above, it will feel more intimate than TOYOTA PARK or BMO Field, will have a canopy roof over most of the main sideline seats, 20+ luxury suites, a field view stadium club, center entrance player tunnel, new permanent hospitality, concession, restroom and merchandise and locker room facilities.
In the words of my advisor, it’s doable. Nothing’s perfect, except the San Siro (er…), and while it sounds rather odd, soccer in this country will probably always have vestiges of being on the outside. If Peter can make this work, then I’m all for it. But what would the team name be? The Milwaukee Cask Scum? The Milwaukee Brewers Yeast? Or, worse yet, Milwaukee United FC Deportivo?
Excluding the ambiance and game feel the main reason MLS teams need their own stadiums is to control revenue. The teams currently turning a profit control revenue in their own facilities and all revenue. One of the main points of this proposal is that the track could derive financial benefits from this proposal. If the track is in a position to benefit financially that means the MLS team is in a position to lose revenue. The whole project is theoretically flawed based on the revenue distribution statement of purpose.
The fact it is in the middle of a race track is whole nothing matter for debate.
Milw Mile would benefit from usage of suites, club seats and other hospitality areas for its events and potentially a rental fee that would be less than the Fire pays the VOB. Team would benefit economically from retention of stadium sponsorship, parking, merchandise and concessions from its events and other revenue streams that can’t be disclosed at this time.
……and AGAIN, it’s NOT in the middle of a race track! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So it’s on the racetrack? Will there be a chain link fence on one side? It just sounds desperate…do we need a team in Milwaukee at any cost?
The teams that pay to use football stadiums are paying out the ass to do so and scrambling to get better deals lest they become the next Dynamo, hence the panic in DC over recent stadium news. If there are revenue streams that the team would retain, fine (is that really Peter Wilt, by the way?), and then maybe the economics make sense and it’s a feasible idea. But if they don’t, I’m with CD and I see this as nothing more than an odd scheme, and one that would come at the expense of what I think of as more deserving options. And I’ll freely admit that I can’t shake the mental picture I have of this stadium as haphazard and gimmicky.
(And yes, I know: the San Jose situation. But I really think the stellar quality of Wolff’s ownership group mitigated the short-tem economics of the stadium issue; Garber realized this was the last, best chance for San Jose and pulled the trigger. Not that Peter Wilt isn’t someone I want back in the league immediately, but there’s a difference in situations. Milwaukee is not a massive must-have market or a city that got wrongfully screwed.)
The fence comes down and the field would be elevated above the track. Please trust me on these two points:
1) If we got this done, it would be one of the coolest soccer stadia in the country that would provide a tremendous fan experience for both the high end VIP fan and the cheap ticket supporter section fan.
2) The odds are still very much against us getting this done.
peter
Given that the Meazza was mentioned above, it is worth noting that San Siro is bordered on two sides by a massive horse racing complex, that the two complexes share certain facilities (including public transport and some parking), that an excellent view of the harness track is available to anyone on the ramps on one side of the ground (or anyone in the top row who turns around) and that most fans approach “Milan’s other cathedral” by walking between two sets of stables.
Let’s wait to see some more detailed concept drawings before rejecting it out of hand. The prospect of a Chicago-Milwaukee MLS derby alone should induce those of us who genuinely care about supporter culture to give the concept the benefit of the doubt.
From where I sit, Chicago-Milwaukee has the potential to become THE American derby. And if I had to pick a single individual with a recent track record in US soccer to nurture the development of that rivalry, it would be the guy whose post precedes this one.
Where is the photos?
I’m a little late getting in on this but this seems like, well, there just isn’t any demand for the beautiful game in Beer City. The first comment on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel’s post about Peter Wilt’s proposal reads like this:
“Who gives a *** about soccer. If he wants this so bad let him pay for for it—don’t think of taxing us for something we don’t want”
Not to be a jerk but when there are proven and growing soccer markets like Vancouver, Seattle, Rochester, Portland, Montreal, and Las Vegas seeking teams why are we even wasting time on Milwaukee?!?!?
If you think Milwaukee-Chicago would be a great derby, it would pale in comparison to enthusiasm generated by a Rochester-Toronto rivalry.
I admire Peter Wilt’s commitment and vision but he’s wasting his time with Milwaukee. Should MLS expand to 30 teams in 2035 then Beer City might be an option. Otherwise it’s just a distraction from the real task of putting franchises in City’s that can support an MLS team.
My gut reaction as an Englishman and big “football” fan is that the field might be too far away from the stands. That’s why track and field stadiums are rarely used for soccer games, because the fans are further away from the action and the stadiums atmosphere is somewhat diffused.
However, I all for a Milwaukee soccer team and hope that something can be sorted out.
“I’ve since seen a preliminary design for the stadium by a Milwaukee architecture firm. It actually looks pretty cool”
Where can I find these images?
Can anyone fill me in with any developments with this over the past year? This would be very exciting if the MLS and Milwaukee Mile could get this to work.
Ryan, I saw the designs on a confidential basis, so I can’t pass them on. And unfortunately, Milwaukee to MLS is dead in the water right now; Peter Wilt has moved on, and I haven’t heard of anyone resurrecting it since.
If Peter couldn’t get it done, no-one could, so it’ll take something changing in Milwaukee for expansion to take place there.
Very sad. They would have had at least one season ticket holder right here.
And the Chicago-Milwaukee derby would have been absolutely brilliant. A shame.