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	<title>Comments on: The Sweeper: The Decline of SoccerAmerica</title>
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	<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/</link>
	<description>A soccer blog featuring essays, news and photography exploring soccer around the world</description>
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		<title>By: This Is American Soccer, US Soccer, MNT, WNT, and MLS &#187; Blog Archive &#187; good people doing bad things</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-21023</link>
		<dc:creator>This Is American Soccer, US Soccer, MNT, WNT, and MLS &#187; Blog Archive &#187; good people doing bad things</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-21023</guid>
		<description>[...] two (1, 2) posts from two guys who get it more right than most have me remembering the last time I picked up [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] two (1, 2) posts from two guys who get it more right than most have me remembering the last time I picked up [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Sweeper: How Not to Question the US Soccer Federation About Diversity &#124; Pitch Invasion</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20980</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sweeper: How Not to Question the US Soccer Federation About Diversity &#124; Pitch Invasion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20980</guid>
		<description>[...] Story Our post yesterday on the future of SoccerAmerica sparked an interesting discussion in the comments about the purpose of the magazine in print and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Story Our post yesterday on the future of SoccerAmerica sparked an interesting discussion in the comments about the purpose of the magazine in print and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dokool</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20964</link>
		<dc:creator>dokool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20964</guid>
		<description>Err, that &quot;behind&quot; should be a &quot;beyond.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Err, that &#8220;behind&#8221; should be a &#8220;beyond.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: dokool</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20963</link>
		<dc:creator>dokool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20963</guid>
		<description>If I can make a digression,

KT wrote:
&quot;Hell, Japan has more than a dozen DAILY sports newspapers, and the only one that’s ever really been tried here went belly-up after 18 months and $100 million lost. Maybe it can’t be done.&quot;

Some weeks I spend upwards of 1000+ yen/week on soccer publications: Weekly Soccer Digest, Weekly Soccer Magazine, and El Golazo (a thrice-weekly newspaper). And those just cover Japanese soccer! Nevermind all the mags that cover the European scene.

The catch is that Japanese media almost steadfastly refuse to use the Internet. Tiny photos, rarely does anything behind a &quot;in this week&#039;s issue&quot; preview, few archives on newspaper sites longer than 2 weeks, etc. One newspaper whose site I always go to for my team&#039;s news now charges 350y/month for access to its mobile site. And this is the norm.

It&#039;s certainly a fair statement to make that Japan is far ahead of the US in terms of print soccer journalism, but bear in mind that a major reason for this is that Japan&#039;s net media is still in the dark ages, relatively speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I can make a digression,</p>
<p>KT wrote:<br />
&#8220;Hell, Japan has more than a dozen DAILY sports newspapers, and the only one that’s ever really been tried here went belly-up after 18 months and $100 million lost. Maybe it can’t be done.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some weeks I spend upwards of 1000+ yen/week on soccer publications: Weekly Soccer Digest, Weekly Soccer Magazine, and El Golazo (a thrice-weekly newspaper). And those just cover Japanese soccer! Nevermind all the mags that cover the European scene.</p>
<p>The catch is that Japanese media almost steadfastly refuse to use the Internet. Tiny photos, rarely does anything behind a &#8220;in this week&#8217;s issue&#8221; preview, few archives on newspaper sites longer than 2 weeks, etc. One newspaper whose site I always go to for my team&#8217;s news now charges 350y/month for access to its mobile site. And this is the norm.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s certainly a fair statement to make that Japan is far ahead of the US in terms of print soccer journalism, but bear in mind that a major reason for this is that Japan&#8217;s net media is still in the dark ages, relatively speaking.</p>
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		<title>By: KT</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20960</link>
		<dc:creator>KT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20960</guid>
		<description>&quot;I would argue that morons and pseudo-journalists have occupied a part of American Sports Journalism for a long, long time.&quot;

Fair enough. But for every Jay Marriotti, it seems as though there are ten MLS Rumors (or people with that level of braindeadedness). 

But I have long argued that you don&#039;t want soccer covered by &quot;the mainstream media&quot; (no matter how much you think it would be cool or validate your soccer fandom or whatever) because, by and large, &quot;the mainstream media&quot; knows eff-all about soccer. Sportscenter &quot;covering&quot; MLS would be lowest-common-denominator bullshit with a lot of catch phrases and auditions for the local chuckle hut thrown in. I&#039;d just as soon they left it alone. 

At least you can avoid the total crackpots online by just not going to their sites or clicking on links.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would argue that morons and pseudo-journalists have occupied a part of American Sports Journalism for a long, long time.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fair enough. But for every Jay Marriotti, it seems as though there are ten MLS Rumors (or people with that level of braindeadedness). </p>
<p>But I have long argued that you don&#8217;t want soccer covered by &#8220;the mainstream media&#8221; (no matter how much you think it would be cool or validate your soccer fandom or whatever) because, by and large, &#8220;the mainstream media&#8221; knows eff-all about soccer. Sportscenter &#8220;covering&#8221; MLS would be lowest-common-denominator bullshit with a lot of catch phrases and auditions for the local chuckle hut thrown in. I&#8217;d just as soon they left it alone. </p>
<p>At least you can avoid the total crackpots online by just not going to their sites or clicking on links.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Dunmore</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20957</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Dunmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20957</guid>
		<description>Jay -- there can be a place for a brief recap, I&#039;d agree to that. Obviously, in terms of winning page-views as well, that may actually be a winning strategy if you broaden everything out and become a one-stop shop: see SBI (which has in the process sacrificed what little quality journalism it had for the most part). 

But part of the issue I also mentioned was that this was the &lt;em&gt;leading article&lt;/em&gt; on the site: that&#039;s the first thing any site is judged by. An interview with Sunil Gulati is buried in the sidebar next to it. I just don&#039;t think that makes sense for SA editorially, as indeed, they need to be a must-read niche publication, not a one-stop-shop, or even more awkwardly in the internet era, trying to be a hybrid between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay &#8212; there can be a place for a brief recap, I&#8217;d agree to that. Obviously, in terms of winning page-views as well, that may actually be a winning strategy if you broaden everything out and become a one-stop shop: see SBI (which has in the process sacrificed what little quality journalism it had for the most part). </p>
<p>But part of the issue I also mentioned was that this was the <em>leading article</em> on the site: that&#8217;s the first thing any site is judged by. An interview with Sunil Gulati is buried in the sidebar next to it. I just don&#8217;t think that makes sense for SA editorially, as indeed, they need to be a must-read niche publication, not a one-stop-shop, or even more awkwardly in the internet era, trying to be a hybrid between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Hipps</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20955</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Hipps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20955</guid>
		<description>I agree that SA has provided some great writing over the years; I&#039;m particularly a big fan of Ridge Mahoney&#039;s work. It&#039;s disappointing that they find themselves in dire financial straits after serving the country&#039;s soccer community so well for so many years. 

A couple comments on your piece: 

- I&#039;ll defend, though not too strenuously, Paul Kennedy&#039;s item on yesterday&#039;s Milan/ManU piece by saying that people who use SA as their primary soccer news source might appreciate seeing a brief recap of European action there. Kennedy may also be providing pieces like that, brief though they may be, as a way of keeping his existing audience from straying to other outlets. 

- That said, I agree that SA should capitalize on their strengths as a niche publication. It may be counter-intuitive to narrow the focus as the audience decreases, but there are a lot of things that SA does that are simply unmatched by other sources, either in print or online. When times are tough, go with your strengths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that SA has provided some great writing over the years; I&#8217;m particularly a big fan of Ridge Mahoney&#8217;s work. It&#8217;s disappointing that they find themselves in dire financial straits after serving the country&#8217;s soccer community so well for so many years. </p>
<p>A couple comments on your piece: </p>
<p>- I&#8217;ll defend, though not too strenuously, Paul Kennedy&#8217;s item on yesterday&#8217;s Milan/ManU piece by saying that people who use SA as their primary soccer news source might appreciate seeing a brief recap of European action there. Kennedy may also be providing pieces like that, brief though they may be, as a way of keeping his existing audience from straying to other outlets. </p>
<p>- That said, I agree that SA should capitalize on their strengths as a niche publication. It may be counter-intuitive to narrow the focus as the audience decreases, but there are a lot of things that SA does that are simply unmatched by other sources, either in print or online. When times are tough, go with your strengths.</p>
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		<title>By: merwin</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20949</link>
		<dc:creator>merwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20949</guid>
		<description>KT wrote:

Unfortunately, the vacuum created by the relative lack of good information about American soccer, combined with the dropping of many of the barriers to entry gives us morons and pseudo-journalists who only serve to bring down the level of discussion while raising the level of hysteria.


I would argue that morons and pseudo-journalists have occupied a part of American Sports Journalism for a long, long time.  Ask a die hard NBA fan what its like to listen to mainstream NBA scribes talk about potential trades who have absolutely no understanding of how the salary cap or NBA trade rules work.  Instead you can go to a good message board and discover things like &quot;hey the Bucks can&#039;t trade for Malik Allen since it is against NBA rules to reacquire a player via trade after you traded him in the same season&quot; after a paid sportswriter in Denver says &quot;Denver shopping Malik Allen to the Bucks&quot;.  Ignorance and stupidity is rampant in paid sports media.  Ives is a prime example of this in the world of paid soccer journalists.

KT wrote:

I don’t know what the answer is. Find people you feel you can trust and read them. Have a discerning eye. Avoid people who seek pageviews first and the truth somewhere down the line.


This is how you have to view all media.  Stupidity, ignorance, fear mongering, and pageview pandering have always been a problem.  I read Pitch Invasion because it is smart, thoughtful and focused even if I don&#039;t always agree.  I read Fake Sigi for the same reasons.  I don&#039;t read Dirty Tackle because I find it stupid, pandering, and not funny (which seems to be a goal of theirs).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KT wrote:</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the vacuum created by the relative lack of good information about American soccer, combined with the dropping of many of the barriers to entry gives us morons and pseudo-journalists who only serve to bring down the level of discussion while raising the level of hysteria.</p>
<p>I would argue that morons and pseudo-journalists have occupied a part of American Sports Journalism for a long, long time.  Ask a die hard NBA fan what its like to listen to mainstream NBA scribes talk about potential trades who have absolutely no understanding of how the salary cap or NBA trade rules work.  Instead you can go to a good message board and discover things like &#8220;hey the Bucks can&#8217;t trade for Malik Allen since it is against NBA rules to reacquire a player via trade after you traded him in the same season&#8221; after a paid sportswriter in Denver says &#8220;Denver shopping Malik Allen to the Bucks&#8221;.  Ignorance and stupidity is rampant in paid sports media.  Ives is a prime example of this in the world of paid soccer journalists.</p>
<p>KT wrote:</p>
<p>I don’t know what the answer is. Find people you feel you can trust and read them. Have a discerning eye. Avoid people who seek pageviews first and the truth somewhere down the line.</p>
<p>This is how you have to view all media.  Stupidity, ignorance, fear mongering, and pageview pandering have always been a problem.  I read Pitch Invasion because it is smart, thoughtful and focused even if I don&#8217;t always agree.  I read Fake Sigi for the same reasons.  I don&#8217;t read Dirty Tackle because I find it stupid, pandering, and not funny (which seems to be a goal of theirs).</p>
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		<title>By: KT</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/02/17/the-sweeper-the-decline-of-soccer-america/comment-page-1/#comment-20946</link>
		<dc:creator>KT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=7733#comment-20946</guid>
		<description>As a magazine editor, I have a little bit I can add to the discussion at least:

It&#039;s REALLY tough out there. Newspapers are in a death spiral, but they still have some amount of tradition and broad appeal and some habits die hard. But we&#039;re not far behind. In fact, many of us may go first, because most of us aren&#039;t backed by huge corporations.

While it has always amazed me that something like Cat Fancy can get 233,500 circulation per issue while Soccer America (I&#039;m guessing here) can&#039;t get close to that, but I guess I shouldn&#039;t be that amazed. Lots and lots of people have cats in this country, and those people are REALLY fanatical about their cats. 

Part of the problem is the actual number of soccer fans in this country who potentially WOULD purchase a magazine may not be large enough to actually sustain a magazine. 

The other part of the problem, as you rightly point out, is why would you? You&#039;re not going to find information there that you can&#039;t get somewhere else (for free, and in a more timely manner). The quality&#039;s not what it would have to be to attract large numbers, and without large numbers, the quality&#039;s not going to improve (sounds like MLS&#039; play on the field, doesn&#039;t it?). 

I love FourFourTwo. Even though I only peripherally pay attention to the English game, I think &lt;i&gt;as a magazine&lt;/i&gt;, it&#039;s fantastic. The photography, the editorial, the ideas, the depth of coverage. Even though I don&#039;t have a horse in the race when it comes to Division Two or Scotland, their content is so compelling that I find myself reading it whenever I can (my local Barnes &amp; Noble no longer carries it, so I haven&#039;t seen it in a while). 

No American soccer magazine has ever approached that level of quality. Maybe it can&#039;t, because that level of quality requires a substantial capital investment. Hell, Japan has more than a dozen DAILY sports newspapers, and the only one that&#039;s ever really been tried here went belly-up after 18 months and $100 million lost. Maybe it can&#039;t be done. 

While I still love a good magazine, still love seeing one arrive in my mailbox, I know that I&#039;m in the minority and that the future is online - even for the magazine I&#039;m in charge of. Still, as newspapers are finding out, there continues to be a need for information - there always will be, IMHO. 

Unfortunately, the vacuum created by the relative lack of good information about American soccer, combined with the dropping of many of the barriers to entry gives us morons and pseudo-journalists who only serve to bring down the level of discussion while raising the level of hysteria. 

I don&#039;t know what the answer is. Find people you feel you can trust and read them. Have a discerning eye. Avoid people who seek pageviews first and the truth somewhere down the line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a magazine editor, I have a little bit I can add to the discussion at least:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s REALLY tough out there. Newspapers are in a death spiral, but they still have some amount of tradition and broad appeal and some habits die hard. But we&#8217;re not far behind. In fact, many of us may go first, because most of us aren&#8217;t backed by huge corporations.</p>
<p>While it has always amazed me that something like Cat Fancy can get 233,500 circulation per issue while Soccer America (I&#8217;m guessing here) can&#8217;t get close to that, but I guess I shouldn&#8217;t be that amazed. Lots and lots of people have cats in this country, and those people are REALLY fanatical about their cats. </p>
<p>Part of the problem is the actual number of soccer fans in this country who potentially WOULD purchase a magazine may not be large enough to actually sustain a magazine. </p>
<p>The other part of the problem, as you rightly point out, is why would you? You&#8217;re not going to find information there that you can&#8217;t get somewhere else (for free, and in a more timely manner). The quality&#8217;s not what it would have to be to attract large numbers, and without large numbers, the quality&#8217;s not going to improve (sounds like MLS&#8217; play on the field, doesn&#8217;t it?). </p>
<p>I love FourFourTwo. Even though I only peripherally pay attention to the English game, I think <i>as a magazine</i>, it&#8217;s fantastic. The photography, the editorial, the ideas, the depth of coverage. Even though I don&#8217;t have a horse in the race when it comes to Division Two or Scotland, their content is so compelling that I find myself reading it whenever I can (my local Barnes &amp; Noble no longer carries it, so I haven&#8217;t seen it in a while). </p>
<p>No American soccer magazine has ever approached that level of quality. Maybe it can&#8217;t, because that level of quality requires a substantial capital investment. Hell, Japan has more than a dozen DAILY sports newspapers, and the only one that&#8217;s ever really been tried here went belly-up after 18 months and $100 million lost. Maybe it can&#8217;t be done. </p>
<p>While I still love a good magazine, still love seeing one arrive in my mailbox, I know that I&#8217;m in the minority and that the future is online &#8211; even for the magazine I&#8217;m in charge of. Still, as newspapers are finding out, there continues to be a need for information &#8211; there always will be, IMHO. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the vacuum created by the relative lack of good information about American soccer, combined with the dropping of many of the barriers to entry gives us morons and pseudo-journalists who only serve to bring down the level of discussion while raising the level of hysteria. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the answer is. Find people you feel you can trust and read them. Have a discerning eye. Avoid people who seek pageviews first and the truth somewhere down the line.</p>
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