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	<title>Comments on: The Sweeper: The Mediocrity of MLS?</title>
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		<title>By: dabes2</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-11234</link>
		<dc:creator>dabes2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-11234</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a long term Chicago Fire season ticket holder, and I think Payne is correct.  The league is justified for fining him for taking that point of view to the press but that doesn&#039;t make it untrue.  IMO, Payne is foreshadowing his desire to replace Soehn and bring in another south american/flair oriented dp.  And DC draws better than virtually any of the long term franchises, so I think he&#039;s correct in sticking to those guns as he plans for DCs future.

MLS absolutely needs to put out an &quot;attractive product&quot;.  If I want to see decent players working really hard, I can ride my bike with my kids to a Northwestern game in Evanston and have an entertaining time and spend less than it costs just to park at Toyota Park.  My kids get invited to be ball boys for the high school team which will drag me along for live soccer.  For the cost of one family outing to a Fire game, I can also get a season&#039;s worth of FSW, Setanta and Gol TV.  

I don&#039;t have to go to MLS games to enjoy watching soccer.  I&#039;ve done it for years, because the Fire have generally had good teams and some inventive players.  But the prospects of the Fire replacing skilled and proven players like Rolfe, Blanco, McBride, Conde and Segares with Nyarko, Lowry, Banner, Woollard and Husidic has my season ticket renewal form buried in my desk drawer well past the renewal date. 

Birmingham City might be able to fill their stadium with fans ecstatic over their 0-0 draw with Man City, but that&#039;s not going to get the job done in cities like Chicago or DC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a long term Chicago Fire season ticket holder, and I think Payne is correct.  The league is justified for fining him for taking that point of view to the press but that doesn&#8217;t make it untrue.  IMO, Payne is foreshadowing his desire to replace Soehn and bring in another south american/flair oriented dp.  And DC draws better than virtually any of the long term franchises, so I think he&#8217;s correct in sticking to those guns as he plans for DCs future.</p>
<p>MLS absolutely needs to put out an &#8220;attractive product&#8221;.  If I want to see decent players working really hard, I can ride my bike with my kids to a Northwestern game in Evanston and have an entertaining time and spend less than it costs just to park at Toyota Park.  My kids get invited to be ball boys for the high school team which will drag me along for live soccer.  For the cost of one family outing to a Fire game, I can also get a season&#8217;s worth of FSW, Setanta and Gol TV.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have to go to MLS games to enjoy watching soccer.  I&#8217;ve done it for years, because the Fire have generally had good teams and some inventive players.  But the prospects of the Fire replacing skilled and proven players like Rolfe, Blanco, McBride, Conde and Segares with Nyarko, Lowry, Banner, Woollard and Husidic has my season ticket renewal form buried in my desk drawer well past the renewal date. </p>
<p>Birmingham City might be able to fill their stadium with fans ecstatic over their 0-0 draw with Man City, but that&#8217;s not going to get the job done in cities like Chicago or DC.</p>
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		<title>By: MLS Fines DC President $5k for Pointing Out The Obvious &#124; Pitch Invasion</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10513</link>
		<dc:creator>MLS Fines DC President $5k for Pointing Out The Obvious &#124; Pitch Invasion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10513</guid>
		<description>[...] as we commented, Payne&#8217;s comments were a rather poor effort at covering his own backside for a team incapable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as we commented, Payne&#8217;s comments were a rather poor effort at covering his own backside for a team incapable [...]</p>
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		<title>By: earthquakes</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10379</link>
		<dc:creator>earthquakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10379</guid>
		<description>someone should write a &quot;barbarians at the gates: sports edition&quot; about the use of leveraged buy outs and junk bonds to buy sports teams. the icelandic &quot;investment banks&quot; (if you want to call them that) also did a lot of this using fake monopoly money to buy teams in the run up to the depression.

if your only duty is to the shareholder (the team ownership group), then it&#039;s fine because they make a profit. but if you have a duty to the club/fans/organization, then it&#039;s bad because it saddles it with a ton of debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someone should write a &#8220;barbarians at the gates: sports edition&#8221; about the use of leveraged buy outs and junk bonds to buy sports teams. the icelandic &#8220;investment banks&#8221; (if you want to call them that) also did a lot of this using fake monopoly money to buy teams in the run up to the depression.</p>
<p>if your only duty is to the shareholder (the team ownership group), then it&#8217;s fine because they make a profit. but if you have a duty to the club/fans/organization, then it&#8217;s bad because it saddles it with a ton of debt.</p>
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		<title>By: The Sweeper: The Mediocrity of&#8230;&#160;&#124;&#160;The Gers Info</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10370</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sweeper: The Mediocrity of&#8230;&#160;&#124;&#160;The Gers Info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10370</guid>
		<description>[...] this article: The Sweeper: The Mediocrity of&#8230;    Filed under Rangers Tags: club-president, colorado, eight-or-nine, kevin-payne, least-earned, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this article: The Sweeper: The Mediocrity of&#8230;    Filed under Rangers Tags: club-president, colorado, eight-or-nine, kevin-payne, least-earned, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: schram</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10366</link>
		<dc:creator>schram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10366</guid>
		<description>Please, we all saw neat artist renderings of a new Anfield, too. Spuds should be able to afford it -- they charge their fans a lot more than Liverpool do, while their lack of ambition means that they basically only have to spend enough to stay out of relegation each season and 5th or 6th is considered a great year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please, we all saw neat artist renderings of a new Anfield, too. Spuds should be able to afford it &#8212; they charge their fans a lot more than Liverpool do, while their lack of ambition means that they basically only have to spend enough to stay out of relegation each season and 5th or 6th is considered a great year.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Dunmore</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10361</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Dunmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10361</guid>
		<description>I allow myself one cheap shot at a random target per week and Carragher has to take it. He did play fine, but &quot;back to his best&quot; is a bit much.

As for &quot;so-called Liverpool supporters&quot;....The answer is yes, the club is worse off because of the leveraged buy-out they did that has loaded the entire enterprise with debt and they haven&#039;t fulfilled their promises.  Tottenham&#039;s stadium looks set to go ahead despite the global economy and without new ownership or the kind of income Liverpool have had in the past few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I allow myself one cheap shot at a random target per week and Carragher has to take it. He did play fine, but &#8220;back to his best&#8221; is a bit much.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;so-called Liverpool supporters&#8221;&#8230;.The answer is yes, the club is worse off because of the leveraged buy-out they did that has loaded the entire enterprise with debt and they haven&#8217;t fulfilled their promises.  Tottenham&#8217;s stadium looks set to go ahead despite the global economy and without new ownership or the kind of income Liverpool have had in the past few years.</p>
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		<title>By: schram</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10360</link>
		<dc:creator>schram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10360</guid>
		<description>Come on, Carragher had a great game on Sunday, why the need to hate? Pepe Reina should probably be forced to return part of his paycheck as he had so little to do.

And to the anti-Yank protests by so-called Liverpool supporters? As my boy Diego Armando might say: &quot;They can suck it, and they can keep on sucking it.&quot; Now that we&#039;re in an age where costs and payouts in the game have exploded, are Gillette and Hicks doing worse by the club than before? If this were 2005, would Liverpool have shelled out the equivalent for what G&amp;H shelled out for Torres? It&#039;s barely five years ago that Steven Gerrard was about to leave for another *English* club. What progress was being made toward expanding the brand internationally, or crucially toward a new stadium? 

It sucks that the global economy came crashing down and really put them in a money bind, but hey, a lot of people in the real world have been hit harder by the downturn and struggle with weightier issues than where their favorite club will play football. If worst comes to worst, there&#039;s not going to be a Leeds situation, or a sell-off of all their good players, they&#039;ll end up selling out to an arab family flush with oil money and the quest for number 19 will continue. (Personally if they end up having to sell, I wish someone like American Bob Kraft would step in. If only Dallas Cowboy owner Jerry Jones was interested in soccer....ahhh, a man can dream, right?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on, Carragher had a great game on Sunday, why the need to hate? Pepe Reina should probably be forced to return part of his paycheck as he had so little to do.</p>
<p>And to the anti-Yank protests by so-called Liverpool supporters? As my boy Diego Armando might say: &#8220;They can suck it, and they can keep on sucking it.&#8221; Now that we&#8217;re in an age where costs and payouts in the game have exploded, are Gillette and Hicks doing worse by the club than before? If this were 2005, would Liverpool have shelled out the equivalent for what G&amp;H shelled out for Torres? It&#8217;s barely five years ago that Steven Gerrard was about to leave for another *English* club. What progress was being made toward expanding the brand internationally, or crucially toward a new stadium? </p>
<p>It sucks that the global economy came crashing down and really put them in a money bind, but hey, a lot of people in the real world have been hit harder by the downturn and struggle with weightier issues than where their favorite club will play football. If worst comes to worst, there&#8217;s not going to be a Leeds situation, or a sell-off of all their good players, they&#8217;ll end up selling out to an arab family flush with oil money and the quest for number 19 will continue. (Personally if they end up having to sell, I wish someone like American Bob Kraft would step in. If only Dallas Cowboy owner Jerry Jones was interested in soccer&#8230;.ahhh, a man can dream, right?)</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Dunmore</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10357</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Dunmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10357</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s probably a lot to the question of coaching and MLS, and whether we have a breed of coaches who can take players to the next level, but is it a matter of American coaches having a problem?  I mean, after all, Denis Hamlett is Costa Rican. :)

I think the problem is that the league does reward mediocrity for too long with the still-generous playoff system and of course, the infamous lack of relegation, meaning the pressure just isn&#039;t on the players or coaches to perform as much as it is in some (but far from all) other places.  There&#039;s an awful lot of recycling.

I&#039;m not sure Payne&#039;s general point about attacking football holds very well in terms of the appeal of the league, though it might hold a little for DC due to their early history. I&#039;m sure Toronto fans would take a playoff run however it was achieved, and if the Fire had won more home games, attendance would have been better even if the many draws had just been squeaked into wins.  Sure, great football helps, but everywhere in the world, it&#039;s winning that fills the stands and not the quality of play, isn&#039;t it?  

Though I suppose the fact Columbus still aren&#039;t selling out after two dominant seasons suggests the issue is much larger than either that or Payne&#039;s answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s probably a lot to the question of coaching and MLS, and whether we have a breed of coaches who can take players to the next level, but is it a matter of American coaches having a problem?  I mean, after all, Denis Hamlett is Costa Rican. <img src='http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think the problem is that the league does reward mediocrity for too long with the still-generous playoff system and of course, the infamous lack of relegation, meaning the pressure just isn&#8217;t on the players or coaches to perform as much as it is in some (but far from all) other places.  There&#8217;s an awful lot of recycling.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure Payne&#8217;s general point about attacking football holds very well in terms of the appeal of the league, though it might hold a little for DC due to their early history. I&#8217;m sure Toronto fans would take a playoff run however it was achieved, and if the Fire had won more home games, attendance would have been better even if the many draws had just been squeaked into wins.  Sure, great football helps, but everywhere in the world, it&#8217;s winning that fills the stands and not the quality of play, isn&#8217;t it?  </p>
<p>Though I suppose the fact Columbus still aren&#8217;t selling out after two dominant seasons suggests the issue is much larger than either that or Payne&#8217;s answer.</p>
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		<title>By: DemonJuice</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10355</link>
		<dc:creator>DemonJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10355</guid>
		<description>*Kevin  (whoops)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*Kevin  (whoops)</p>
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		<title>By: DemonJuice</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/27/the-sweeper-the-mediocrity-of-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-10354</link>
		<dc:creator>DemonJuice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=4013#comment-10354</guid>
		<description>Brian Payne sounds like every manager of a Spanish team that has ever lost to Chelsea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian Payne sounds like every manager of a Spanish team that has ever lost to Chelsea.</p>
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