<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Damned United: Dirty, dirty Leeds.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/</link>
	<description>A soccer blog featuring essays, news and photography exploring soccer around the world</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:59:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Damned United: A Review :Soccer World</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-17114</link>
		<dc:creator>The Damned United: A Review :Soccer World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-17114</guid>
		<description>[...] [I expanded this review for Pitch Invasion - you can read the revision here.] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [I expanded this review for Pitch Invasion - you can read the revision here.] [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer Doyle</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9858</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9858</guid>
		<description>NWH - that explains a lot - I think that dynamic (the board&#039;s failure to do the right thing) is visible in the film (more than in the book, in fact), but it&#039;s on the edges.  But you have to know to look for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NWH &#8211; that explains a lot &#8211; I think that dynamic (the board&#8217;s failure to do the right thing) is visible in the film (more than in the book, in fact), but it&#8217;s on the edges.  But you have to know to look for it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nwh</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9857</link>
		<dc:creator>nwh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9857</guid>
		<description>hi
 I read the book when it came it was so depressing  I found it hard work to finish ;but thats peace-  see the west riding trilogy. As a fan who went o all the games during the 70&#039;s, I remember cloughs 44 days quite well.

That clough should&#039;ve been appointed  simply showed up the board (manny Cussins et al) as class ridden cowards. As revie often said, &quot; I left them with money in the bank and a few years left in the squad with youngsters coming through.&quot;  and  advocated Giles as his successor, not Bremner, who was piqued (giles had been invited by Brazil to observe their training in 74).  The board wanted a name: &#039;this is Leeds&#039; and lost the chance to do what liverpool did for the next 10 years - have a seamless transistion of teams, being built and rebuilt, by promoting from within. The worker taking over the team? insanity!

Even coach and trainer les cocker and syd owen were on the England team, surely between them we couldv&#039;e had our own boot room?

The bare facts are that clough wasn&#039;t good enough to manage the teams transition from the 70s to the 80s and very few outsiders could have . Jock stein should have , but he lasted less than Clough to manage scotland.  I hate the fact  a great team has its memory devalued by the clough story. The team lasted 10 years, clough 44 days and the silverware speaks louder than fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi<br />
 I read the book when it came it was so depressing  I found it hard work to finish ;but thats peace-  see the west riding trilogy. As a fan who went o all the games during the 70&#8242;s, I remember cloughs 44 days quite well.</p>
<p>That clough should&#8217;ve been appointed  simply showed up the board (manny Cussins et al) as class ridden cowards. As revie often said, &#8221; I left them with money in the bank and a few years left in the squad with youngsters coming through.&#8221;  and  advocated Giles as his successor, not Bremner, who was piqued (giles had been invited by Brazil to observe their training in 74).  The board wanted a name: &#8216;this is Leeds&#8217; and lost the chance to do what liverpool did for the next 10 years &#8211; have a seamless transistion of teams, being built and rebuilt, by promoting from within. The worker taking over the team? insanity!</p>
<p>Even coach and trainer les cocker and syd owen were on the England team, surely between them we couldv&#8217;e had our own boot room?</p>
<p>The bare facts are that clough wasn&#8217;t good enough to manage the teams transition from the 70s to the 80s and very few outsiders could have . Jock stein should have , but he lasted less than Clough to manage scotland.  I hate the fact  a great team has its memory devalued by the clough story. The team lasted 10 years, clough 44 days and the silverware speaks louder than fiction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer Doyle</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9844</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9844</guid>
		<description>You are very right about the way the film presents itself.  The novel is psychological in its realism - committed first and foremost to one man&#039;s frame of mind.  And in the novel this is absolutely clear (one of things that makes it hard to read is the sense that you are missing huge sections of the story, because you are just getting this one point of view.) The film is much more ambiguous. Setting aside the club histories, I do think Clough comes off as impudent and insecure in the film - and his obsession with Revie seems in the movie irrational. 

Thanks for the links &amp; the comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are very right about the way the film presents itself.  The novel is psychological in its realism &#8211; committed first and foremost to one man&#8217;s frame of mind.  And in the novel this is absolutely clear (one of things that makes it hard to read is the sense that you are missing huge sections of the story, because you are just getting this one point of view.) The film is much more ambiguous. Setting aside the club histories, I do think Clough comes off as impudent and insecure in the film &#8211; and his obsession with Revie seems in the movie irrational. </p>
<p>Thanks for the links &amp; the comments!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neil McDougall</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9843</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil McDougall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9843</guid>
		<description>sorry, the full version is here:
http://www.viddler.com/explore/seagullstv/videos/2/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry, the full version is here:<br />
<a href="http://www.viddler.com/explore/seagullstv/videos/2/" rel="nofollow">http://www.viddler.com/explore/seagullstv/videos/2/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neil McDougall</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9842</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil McDougall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9842</guid>
		<description>Jennifer, I really enjoyed the movie, but have also read enough &quot;reviews&quot; of it that seem to take it all as gospel, which is why I wanted to comment. I really do think that the movie should have had some kind of tagline that read &quot;loosely based on actual events&quot;, because without it, people younger than 40 will think that&#039;s what really happened. And it wasn&#039;t. 

BTW, see the real interview with Brian Clough and Dan Revie after Clough got sacked by Leeds here:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5909301389677463182#</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jennifer, I really enjoyed the movie, but have also read enough &#8220;reviews&#8221; of it that seem to take it all as gospel, which is why I wanted to comment. I really do think that the movie should have had some kind of tagline that read &#8220;loosely based on actual events&#8221;, because without it, people younger than 40 will think that&#8217;s what really happened. And it wasn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>BTW, see the real interview with Brian Clough and Dan Revie after Clough got sacked by Leeds here:<br />
<a href="http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5909301389677463182#" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5909301389677463182#</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer Doyle</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9832</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9832</guid>
		<description>Hi Dean,

The reason I mentioned the Leeds women&#039;s FC:  Don&#039;t know if you have read my writing, but I&#039;m an advocate for women&#039;s football and will take every opportunity to mention a women&#039;s team. It is indeed hard to imagine a Leeds fan from Leeds - or from England for that matter - who doesn&#039;t know about the women&#039;s side (cut loose from the men&#039;s club a couple years ago) - but I have met such fans.  Leeds fans based here in the US are very likely to be unaware of the women&#039;s team - its struggles and accomplishments -  because English women&#039;s football receives zero coverage here, except of course when our professional teams poach English players.  (There - more stuff about women&#039;s football - in a conversation about The Damned UTD!)  

Hope other fans of English football see the film and report back with their thoughts - or can comment on the book, which is really worth a read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dean,</p>
<p>The reason I mentioned the Leeds women&#8217;s FC:  Don&#8217;t know if you have read my writing, but I&#8217;m an advocate for women&#8217;s football and will take every opportunity to mention a women&#8217;s team. It is indeed hard to imagine a Leeds fan from Leeds &#8211; or from England for that matter &#8211; who doesn&#8217;t know about the women&#8217;s side (cut loose from the men&#8217;s club a couple years ago) &#8211; but I have met such fans.  Leeds fans based here in the US are very likely to be unaware of the women&#8217;s team &#8211; its struggles and accomplishments &#8211;  because English women&#8217;s football receives zero coverage here, except of course when our professional teams poach English players.  (There &#8211; more stuff about women&#8217;s football &#8211; in a conversation about The Damned UTD!)  </p>
<p>Hope other fans of English football see the film and report back with their thoughts &#8211; or can comment on the book, which is really worth a read.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dean A Walls</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9831</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean A Walls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9831</guid>
		<description>Hi Jennifer,
I am not here to pick you apart on accuracies or inaccuracies as you seem to have done that pretty well yourself.  Derby, although a good team and very well motivated by the dear old Mr Clough and well constructed by Mr Taylor, were nowhere near the same class as Revie&#039;s Leeds team, Fact!
And why the sudden digression onto Leeds Carnegie, most Leeds fans are perfectly aware of this team and are very proud of their many achievements over many years as they, along with Doncaster and Arsenal have been at the top of the womens game for a long time.  I do not claim to know all the in&#039;s and outs of why they are no longer Leeds United and so will not comment further, but the point you were making was??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jennifer,<br />
I am not here to pick you apart on accuracies or inaccuracies as you seem to have done that pretty well yourself.  Derby, although a good team and very well motivated by the dear old Mr Clough and well constructed by Mr Taylor, were nowhere near the same class as Revie&#8217;s Leeds team, Fact!<br />
And why the sudden digression onto Leeds Carnegie, most Leeds fans are perfectly aware of this team and are very proud of their many achievements over many years as they, along with Doncaster and Arsenal have been at the top of the womens game for a long time.  I do not claim to know all the in&#8217;s and outs of why they are no longer Leeds United and so will not comment further, but the point you were making was??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9817</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9817</guid>
		<description>Well, Jennifer, you claim you say nothing about the book&#039;s or the film&#039;s truthfulness, but as Neil rightly points out when he has the audacity to &quot;chime in&quot;, you do appear to state as fact that Clough was the better manager, Derby were the better team.  Clough &quot;knew&quot; this, you aver.  

Most students of the game would confirm for you that Clough WITHOUT Taylor was a very different proposition from the legendary and quite rightly revered Clough/Taylor partnership.  Taylor abandoned Clough to a solitary struggle against the odds at Leeds, a club he&#039;d previously been at pains to revile at every turn, but which produced a team many still regard as the finest ever English side.  Clough alone didn&#039;t stand a chance, whereas Revie was very much a solo act, with much more diffuse support he created a team almost single-handedly which carried all before them over a decade.  

As for Derby, well they won the League in 1972,  but arguably by default.  They were confirmed as Champions whilst relaxing in Majorca, waiting for Leeds to complete their punishing schedule at Wolves a mere 48 hours after a gruelling Cup Final success over Arsenal at Wembley.  Leeds only needed a draw to complete a deserved double, but exhausted by the Cup Final effort, and missing the inestimable Mick Jones who dislocated his shoulder in that Cup win, they lost 2-1 and finished second.  Derby, a better team?  The weight of evidence gleaned from the rivalry between the clubs in the late 60&#039;s and early 70&#039;s would suggest not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Jennifer, you claim you say nothing about the book&#8217;s or the film&#8217;s truthfulness, but as Neil rightly points out when he has the audacity to &#8220;chime in&#8221;, you do appear to state as fact that Clough was the better manager, Derby were the better team.  Clough &#8220;knew&#8221; this, you aver.  </p>
<p>Most students of the game would confirm for you that Clough WITHOUT Taylor was a very different proposition from the legendary and quite rightly revered Clough/Taylor partnership.  Taylor abandoned Clough to a solitary struggle against the odds at Leeds, a club he&#8217;d previously been at pains to revile at every turn, but which produced a team many still regard as the finest ever English side.  Clough alone didn&#8217;t stand a chance, whereas Revie was very much a solo act, with much more diffuse support he created a team almost single-handedly which carried all before them over a decade.  </p>
<p>As for Derby, well they won the League in 1972,  but arguably by default.  They were confirmed as Champions whilst relaxing in Majorca, waiting for Leeds to complete their punishing schedule at Wolves a mere 48 hours after a gruelling Cup Final success over Arsenal at Wembley.  Leeds only needed a draw to complete a deserved double, but exhausted by the Cup Final effort, and missing the inestimable Mick Jones who dislocated his shoulder in that Cup win, they lost 2-1 and finished second.  Derby, a better team?  The weight of evidence gleaned from the rivalry between the clubs in the late 60&#8242;s and early 70&#8242;s would suggest not.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer Doyle</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/10/the-damned-united-dirty-dirty-leeds/comment-page-1/#comment-9809</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=3624#comment-9809</guid>
		<description>HI Neil, 

I am sure Leeds fans reading this will be happy you chimed in.

My review is actually about the novel - which is a work of fiction - and the film - also, a creative narrative inspired by a true story. 

I say nothing about its truthfulness, because the novel&#039;s point of view is so explicitly Clough&#039;s.  If the phrase &quot;dirty, dirty Leeds&quot; went through my head for days, it&#039;s because it&#039;s repeated, like, on every page of the novel.  Doesn&#039;t mean I think Leeds were any dirtier than any of their opponents.  But Clough sure did think they were. That&#039;s a fact.

The novel is part of Peace&#039;s series of historical novels - fictionalizations of actual events - and are classified, quite rightly, as fiction.  IMHO, fiction is often a better vehicle for certain kinds of truth - like, say, a portrait of Clough&#039;s character, his motivations &amp; obsessions - if only because fiction owns up to its limits, where non-fiction authors rarely avow to theirs.

It should be said: neither the film or the movie are generous toward Clough.  He comes off as a self-centered ass in both!

FYI - if you are a fan, you should check out the women&#039;s team - I believe they are called Leeds Carnegie L.F.C. - they used to be backed by the men&#039;s side, but like many women&#039;s clubs, they lost both financial backing and training facilities a few years ago.  They are now backed by Leeds Metropolitan University, are doing well with their independence and have some pretty great players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI Neil, </p>
<p>I am sure Leeds fans reading this will be happy you chimed in.</p>
<p>My review is actually about the novel &#8211; which is a work of fiction &#8211; and the film &#8211; also, a creative narrative inspired by a true story. </p>
<p>I say nothing about its truthfulness, because the novel&#8217;s point of view is so explicitly Clough&#8217;s.  If the phrase &#8220;dirty, dirty Leeds&#8221; went through my head for days, it&#8217;s because it&#8217;s repeated, like, on every page of the novel.  Doesn&#8217;t mean I think Leeds were any dirtier than any of their opponents.  But Clough sure did think they were. That&#8217;s a fact.</p>
<p>The novel is part of Peace&#8217;s series of historical novels &#8211; fictionalizations of actual events &#8211; and are classified, quite rightly, as fiction.  IMHO, fiction is often a better vehicle for certain kinds of truth &#8211; like, say, a portrait of Clough&#8217;s character, his motivations &amp; obsessions &#8211; if only because fiction owns up to its limits, where non-fiction authors rarely avow to theirs.</p>
<p>It should be said: neither the film or the movie are generous toward Clough.  He comes off as a self-centered ass in both!</p>
<p>FYI &#8211; if you are a fan, you should check out the women&#8217;s team &#8211; I believe they are called Leeds Carnegie L.F.C. &#8211; they used to be backed by the men&#8217;s side, but like many women&#8217;s clubs, they lost both financial backing and training facilities a few years ago.  They are now backed by Leeds Metropolitan University, are doing well with their independence and have some pretty great players.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

