Comments on: The Sweeper: West Ham and Millwall Return England to the Dark Ages (or so we’re told) http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/ A soccer blog featuring essays, news and photography exploring soccer around the world Tue, 03 Apr 2012 22:48:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bev http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-17568 Bev Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:12:56 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-17568 LOL, it is funny how Jeffers seems to have a bit of a dark cloud hanging over him! LOL, it is funny how Jeffers seems to have a bit of a dark cloud hanging over him!

]]> By: Crusher http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-16184 Crusher Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:06:31 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-16184 I agree with Mike. Every single club that Jeffers goes to, he ends up doing something stupid. Shenanigans follow him like his shadow. Jim C. I agree with Mike.
Every single club that Jeffers goes to, he ends up doing something stupid. Shenanigans follow him like his shadow.

Jim C.

]]> By: Zach Dundas - Renegade Sportsman – Burnley: America’s Team, Or Weird Nostalgic Snobbery? - True/Slant http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8740 Zach Dundas - Renegade Sportsman – Burnley: America’s Team, Or Weird Nostalgic Snobbery? - True/Slant Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:28:13 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8740 [...] loss to Chelsea did feature in one of ESPN’s new early-morning Premiership broadcasts, which are already drawing bigger viewerships than prime-time MLS games. It stands to reason that at least some of the hundreds of thousands of viewers decided to pull for [...] [...] loss to Chelsea did feature in one of ESPN’s new early-morning Premiership broadcasts, which are already drawing bigger viewerships than prime-time MLS games. It stands to reason that at least some of the hundreds of thousands of viewers decided to pull for [...]

]]> By: Adrian Ludbrook http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8627 Adrian Ludbrook Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:26:08 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8627 Typical over reaction from the British press. Only 13 arrests, no Police injured, one stabbing - that would have been considered a 'quiet day' back in the 70's. Not condoning what happened, but with the history between these two clubs there was always going to be trouble. Just seems the Metropolitan Police vastly under estimated the level of this threat. Jim hits another nail on the head with his comment. I know both East London and New Cross (where Millwall are located) quite well and for those that don't know they lie just across the Thames from each other, West Ham in the north, Millwall in the South. Both areas have their own unique problems, New Cross is the last remaining predominantly white working class area in inner city London and as such has a seige mentality. Check out the excellent movie Nil By Mouth to get a feel of what this place is like. These people once worked London's docks until they moved out to Tilbury in the 60's. The area's always been an unemployment blackspot, the current recession has hardly helped. Across the river West Ham's stadium is located in what was once the traditional East End but today is a predominantly Muslim area, the street markets as you come out of Upton Park tube station make the place look more like Karachi than East London. As such a lot of West Ham's support moved out to the outer suburbs and further still into Essex (UK's New Jersey for American readers). As you can imagine both sets of supporters have reason to be angry in their lives, the football simply acts as a conduit for this anger. So whilst we, the fans, wait for the thoughtless kneejerk reaction of another round of Draconian measures from the FA to tackle the 'English disease' I hope some of you will see that there is another side beyond the media hype. A side the English government choose to ignore, the plight of the white working class Englishman. If they really want to tackle this problem, they need to tackle the root causes. Trouble is righting England's failing society is far harder than putting up more CCTV cameras and handing out a few football banning orders. Typical over reaction from the British press. Only 13 arrests, no Police injured, one stabbing – that would have been considered a ‘quiet day’ back in the 70′s. Not condoning what happened, but with the history between these two clubs there was always going to be trouble. Just seems the Metropolitan Police vastly under estimated the level of this threat.

Jim hits another nail on the head with his comment. I know both East London and New Cross (where Millwall are located) quite well and for those that don’t know they lie just across the Thames from each other, West Ham in the north, Millwall in the South. Both areas have their own unique problems, New Cross is the last remaining predominantly white working class area in inner city London and as such has a seige mentality. Check out the excellent movie Nil By Mouth to get a feel of what this place is like. These people once worked London’s docks until they moved out to Tilbury in the 60′s. The area’s always been an unemployment blackspot, the current recession has hardly helped.

Across the river West Ham’s stadium is located in what was once the traditional East End but today is a predominantly Muslim area, the street markets as you come out of Upton Park tube station make the place look more like Karachi than East London. As such a lot of West Ham’s support moved out to the outer suburbs and further still into Essex (UK’s New Jersey for American readers). As you can imagine both sets of supporters have reason to be angry in their lives, the football simply acts as a conduit for this anger.

So whilst we, the fans, wait for the thoughtless kneejerk reaction of another round of Draconian measures from the FA to tackle the ‘English disease’ I hope some of you will see that there is another side beyond the media hype. A side the English government choose to ignore, the plight of the white working class Englishman. If they really want to tackle this problem, they need to tackle the root causes. Trouble is righting England’s failing society is far harder than putting up more CCTV cameras and handing out a few football banning orders.

]]> By: niki http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8623 niki Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:29:07 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8623 maybe they bored only watch from the pitch, so they want to join party :lol: maybe they bored only watch from the pitch, so they want to join party :lol:

]]> By: jon http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8614 jon Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:07:27 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8614 thanks for the article and the formation thanks for the article

and the formation

]]> By: Jim Connelly http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8611 Jim Connelly Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:41:59 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8611 Although I agree media outlets on both sides of the Atlantic wish to seize upon this incident to resurrect the lurid specter of hooliganism, has anyone dipped their toe into the suggestion that our current economic malaise mirrors much of the stagnant nihilism that spawned trouble in the 1970's? Although I agree media outlets on both sides of the Atlantic wish to seize upon this incident to resurrect the lurid specter of hooliganism, has anyone dipped their toe into the suggestion that our current economic malaise mirrors much of the stagnant nihilism that spawned trouble in the 1970′s?

]]> By: Michał http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8610 Michał Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:49:35 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8610 Well Tom, at least American media didn't write about the stabbed man that he died shortly after being hurt, while hours later he was told to be in stable condition. When disorder broke out in Romania, Polish media wrote that 400 people invaded the pitch. Romanian media said it was 100. When Serbs got into a clash in Prague, Polish media wrote about 150 fans being arrested. Serbian media only got 44. When Swedish hooligans were fighting on board of a plane before take off, Polish media wrote that the plane was already in the air and somehow, luckily the pilots managed to land it. So you know... American media don't suck that much. :) As for the West Ham - Millwall thing, I wouldn't get carried away. Mainstream media will usually say that: a) events like these bring back the ugly 1970-80's and b) it was for Lord Taylor and Thatcher to establish the best system in the world and c) thankfully this doesn't happen often d) still, the atmosphere in English stadiums is great. (or at least these are my favorite mantras, usually repeated in Poland and also often found in British media) Of course none of this is true, but you know - WHO CARES! The masses will take it as a fact. Well Tom, at least American media didn’t write about the stabbed man that he died shortly after being hurt, while hours later he was told to be in stable condition. When disorder broke out in Romania, Polish media wrote that 400 people invaded the pitch. Romanian media said it was 100. When Serbs got into a clash in Prague, Polish media wrote about 150 fans being arrested. Serbian media only got 44. When Swedish hooligans were fighting on board of a plane before take off, Polish media wrote that the plane was already in the air and somehow, luckily the pilots managed to land it. So you know… American media don’t suck that much. :)

As for the West Ham – Millwall thing, I wouldn’t get carried away. Mainstream media will usually say that:
a) events like these bring back the ugly 1970-80′s and
b) it was for Lord Taylor and Thatcher to establish the best system in the world and
c) thankfully this doesn’t happen often
d) still, the atmosphere in English stadiums is great.
(or at least these are my favorite mantras, usually repeated in Poland and also often found in British media)
Of course none of this is true, but you know – WHO CARES! The masses will take it as a fact.

]]> By: Bahns http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8589 Bahns Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:12:24 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8589 Oh Tom, I hope you’re not becoming more modest with age… let’s look at the facts here – as noted by the above picture, the shenanigans at Upton Park just happen to share a namesake with a certain site that has steadily risen in popularity around the globe throughout the past few months…. Happy Birthday, brother. Oh Tom, I hope you’re not becoming more modest with age… let’s look at the facts here – as noted by the above picture, the shenanigans at Upton Park just happen to share a namesake with a certain site that has steadily risen in popularity around the globe throughout the past few months….

Happy Birthday, brother.

]]> By: Mikebsiu http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/26/the-sweeper-west-ham-and-millwall-return-england-to-the-dark-ages-or-so-were-told/comment-page-1/#comment-8587 Mikebsiu Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:38:20 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2507#comment-8587 Every single club Jeffers goes to, he ends up doing something stupid. Every single club Jeffers goes to, he ends up doing something stupid.

]]>