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	<title>Comments on: Do Managers Matter? Simon Kuper says he could do Alex Ferguson&#8217;s job</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/</link>
	<description>A soccer blog featuring essays, news and photography exploring soccer around the world</description>
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		<title>By: Pitch Invasion Contributors Bring the Goods: Favorites From 2009 &#124; Pitch Invasion</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-20118</link>
		<dc:creator>Pitch Invasion Contributors Bring the Goods: Favorites From 2009 &#124; Pitch Invasion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-20118</guid>
		<description>[...] particularly enjoyed his live blog-ish post on his own take watching an MLS game.  I also enjoyed Tom&#8217;s response back in August to Simon Kuper&#8217;s provocative Independent piece on the non-importance of Big [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] particularly enjoyed his live blog-ish post on his own take watching an MLS game.  I also enjoyed Tom&#8217;s response back in August to Simon Kuper&#8217;s provocative Independent piece on the non-importance of Big [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Dunmore</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8235</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Dunmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8235</guid>
		<description>&quot;weenie&quot; -- I&#039;m aware MyFC still exists. But has the &quot;pick the team&quot; part of the project taken place as originally envisaged?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;weenie&#8221; &#8212; I&#8217;m aware MyFC still exists. But has the &#8220;pick the team&#8221; part of the project taken place as originally envisaged?</p>
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		<title>By: weenie</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8234</link>
		<dc:creator>weenie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8234</guid>
		<description>&quot;(That experiment didn’t get very far with MyFootballClub, did it?)&quot;

This suggests that the &quot;experiment&quot; as you put it has failed, when in fact, myfootballclub.co.uk is still going strong.

The purists will say the &quot;Wisdom of the Crowds&quot; thing isn&#039;t working, but this is only the second season that MyFC have owned EUFC and things continue to evolve, change and improve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;(That experiment didn’t get very far with MyFootballClub, did it?)&#8221;</p>
<p>This suggests that the &#8220;experiment&#8221; as you put it has failed, when in fact, myfootballclub.co.uk is still going strong.</p>
<p>The purists will say the &#8220;Wisdom of the Crowds&#8221; thing isn&#8217;t working, but this is only the second season that MyFC have owned EUFC and things continue to evolve, change and improve.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Pender</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8137</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Pender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8137</guid>
		<description>Yer i think thats pretty dodgy....would Kuper have brought on a 17 year old who had never played before in the dying minutes of a massive game?... I doubt it.. While that decision may have been luck,  Good managers have luck on their side, its part of the game</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yer i think thats pretty dodgy&#8230;.would Kuper have brought on a 17 year old who had never played before in the dying minutes of a massive game?&#8230; I doubt it.. While that decision may have been luck,  Good managers have luck on their side, its part of the game</p>
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		<title>By: eriol11</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8131</link>
		<dc:creator>eriol11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8131</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Kuper is really trying to argue that managers are worthless. I think he&#039;s arguing (in his words &quot;managers are totems.&quot; I think this is especially true of Manchester United and Arsenal where the mans of both clubs put their trust in the manager and is the club identity, especially since player turnover is so high.

I think this holds true of Chelsea, since football policy is really directed through Roman Abramovich&#039;s spending than it is the different managers; the rest is figuring out the squad, which, I&#039;m sure, most of us here could do.

To me, managers like Ferguson and Wenger are successful because of their abilities to grow players through their youth system and finding rare talents that others would ignore. Of course, there are also the innovators who come through once a decade and set new trends regarding formations and training and so on.

As for an experiment-- surely there&#039;s an eccentric millionaire and a (sane) blogger out there who could try this out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Kuper is really trying to argue that managers are worthless. I think he&#8217;s arguing (in his words &#8220;managers are totems.&#8221; I think this is especially true of Manchester United and Arsenal where the mans of both clubs put their trust in the manager and is the club identity, especially since player turnover is so high.</p>
<p>I think this holds true of Chelsea, since football policy is really directed through Roman Abramovich&#8217;s spending than it is the different managers; the rest is figuring out the squad, which, I&#8217;m sure, most of us here could do.</p>
<p>To me, managers like Ferguson and Wenger are successful because of their abilities to grow players through their youth system and finding rare talents that others would ignore. Of course, there are also the innovators who come through once a decade and set new trends regarding formations and training and so on.</p>
<p>As for an experiment&#8211; surely there&#8217;s an eccentric millionaire and a (sane) blogger out there who could try this out.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Dunmore</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8096</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Dunmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8096</guid>
		<description>I do think it would be fascinating academically, Roswitha -- but I wouldn&#039;t want the subject of the experiment to be my club.  I don&#039;t think Kuper provides any evidence it would be a success, based on his specious argument about Ferguson&#039;s success.  That doesn&#039;t rule out it actually working, of course, but the hurdles it would have to overcome are legion.

Even if it &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; work -- ie, if Kuper is correct that managers don&#039;t matter and collective wisdowm would achieve better results -- Kuper also manages to prove his own point on why it could not work in football as it exists as a culture in the foreseeable future, due to the massively entrenched belief in the need for a manager from the supporters to players to ownership.  It would require a total sea-change in attitudes.  We&#039;d need a few million more Syzmanskis and Kupers around.

I mentioned MyFC in the piece because even in that extreme example -- where the supporters were the owners at a low-level of the game with little connection to the club or existing management and who bought into the whole concept based on being able to pick the team -- even the first steps towards this were rejected by the supporter-owners themselves as unworkable in practice.

It&#039;d certainly be fascinating, but almost impossible to implement without being a trainwreck from day one, I feel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think it would be fascinating academically, Roswitha &#8212; but I wouldn&#8217;t want the subject of the experiment to be my club.  I don&#8217;t think Kuper provides any evidence it would be a success, based on his specious argument about Ferguson&#8217;s success.  That doesn&#8217;t rule out it actually working, of course, but the hurdles it would have to overcome are legion.</p>
<p>Even if it <em>could</em> work &#8212; ie, if Kuper is correct that managers don&#8217;t matter and collective wisdowm would achieve better results &#8212; Kuper also manages to prove his own point on why it could not work in football as it exists as a culture in the foreseeable future, due to the massively entrenched belief in the need for a manager from the supporters to players to ownership.  It would require a total sea-change in attitudes.  We&#8217;d need a few million more Syzmanskis and Kupers around.</p>
<p>I mentioned MyFC in the piece because even in that extreme example &#8212; where the supporters were the owners at a low-level of the game with little connection to the club or existing management and who bought into the whole concept based on being able to pick the team &#8212; even the first steps towards this were rejected by the supporter-owners themselves as unworkable in practice.</p>
<p>It&#8217;d certainly be fascinating, but almost impossible to implement without being a trainwreck from day one, I feel.</p>
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		<title>By: roswitha</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8095</link>
		<dc:creator>roswitha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8095</guid>
		<description>Your doubts re: &quot;knowledge&quot; are totally valid, Brian - but don&#039;t you think, academically, that it would be a revolutionary social experiment? I feel like if it goes wrong, then it will be down to methodology more often than not. I think the major obstacles in such a case would not be about tactics - they would be about player-coach interaction, about selecting a vote sample, and stuff like that. 

And also, doubting transparency in football knowledge disproves another of Kuper&#039;s dodgy assertions, that the market is perfect when it comes to information. I don&#039;t have a top sports journalist&#039;s insight into these things, but I am deeply suspicious of this, especially where transfers are concerned. Not everyone can form the same relationships and networks even in much more rigidly-controlled industries - and how much more like a decentralised bazaar must the world football market be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your doubts re: &#8220;knowledge&#8221; are totally valid, Brian &#8211; but don&#8217;t you think, academically, that it would be a revolutionary social experiment? I feel like if it goes wrong, then it will be down to methodology more often than not. I think the major obstacles in such a case would not be about tactics &#8211; they would be about player-coach interaction, about selecting a vote sample, and stuff like that. </p>
<p>And also, doubting transparency in football knowledge disproves another of Kuper&#8217;s dodgy assertions, that the market is perfect when it comes to information. I don&#8217;t have a top sports journalist&#8217;s insight into these things, but I am deeply suspicious of this, especially where transfers are concerned. Not everyone can form the same relationships and networks even in much more rigidly-controlled industries &#8211; and how much more like a decentralised bazaar must the world football market be?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Phillips</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8092</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8092</guid>
		<description>But even if that&#039;s true, Roswitha (personally I have serious doubts, mostly arising from the &quot;knowledge&quot; parameter you mention), what&#039;s the reason to change them?  I&#039;d love to see management open up to more kinds of people than Kuper&#039;s over-35 white men with clockwork haircuts.  But beyond that, does &quot;tactics selected by an online fan vote&quot; really seem more fun or more entertaining than the current approach?  It seems less so to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But even if that&#8217;s true, Roswitha (personally I have serious doubts, mostly arising from the &#8220;knowledge&#8221; parameter you mention), what&#8217;s the reason to change them?  I&#8217;d love to see management open up to more kinds of people than Kuper&#8217;s over-35 white men with clockwork haircuts.  But beyond that, does &#8220;tactics selected by an online fan vote&#8221; really seem more fun or more entertaining than the current approach?  It seems less so to me.</p>
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		<title>By: roswitha</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8091</link>
		<dc:creator>roswitha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8091</guid>
		<description>Elliott makes a good point about longevity - all the effects that a change of manager brings to a side aren&#039;t as measurable as information. Very often at this level a new manager causes significant fluctuations in motivation. How that levels out and sustains itself is a very intriguing question. How would players relate to a web poll as opposed to SAF? What would be the politics of team selection in such a case? 

Having said that, I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s fair to dismiss his &#039;wisdom of crowds&#039; contention on the basis of a couple of failures, Tom. I think someone ought to experiment with it. I&#039;m confident that, given a few parameters (team and league knowledge, intent, team conditions, etc.), a sample of football fans will get all of the tactics right some of the time, and not just by chance. Leadership expectations need not always remain what they are right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elliott makes a good point about longevity &#8211; all the effects that a change of manager brings to a side aren&#8217;t as measurable as information. Very often at this level a new manager causes significant fluctuations in motivation. How that levels out and sustains itself is a very intriguing question. How would players relate to a web poll as opposed to SAF? What would be the politics of team selection in such a case? </p>
<p>Having said that, I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s fair to dismiss his &#8216;wisdom of crowds&#8217; contention on the basis of a couple of failures, Tom. I think someone ought to experiment with it. I&#8217;m confident that, given a few parameters (team and league knowledge, intent, team conditions, etc.), a sample of football fans will get all of the tactics right some of the time, and not just by chance. Leadership expectations need not always remain what they are right now.</p>
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		<title>By: A. Ruiz</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/08/08/do-managers-matter-simon-kuper-says-he-could-do-alex-fergusons-job/comment-page-1/#comment-8084</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Ruiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/?p=2050#comment-8084</guid>
		<description>I agree, but I&#039;ve always said that any reasonable soccer savvy fan of his team could take over for a week or two without the wheels falling off. Especially at the highest levels. Give me Barcelona for a week and I think the team will give Xerez a shellacking, no matter what I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, but I&#8217;ve always said that any reasonable soccer savvy fan of his team could take over for a week or two without the wheels falling off. Especially at the highest levels. Give me Barcelona for a week and I think the team will give Xerez a shellacking, no matter what I do.</p>
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