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	<title>Comments on: Sexism Hurts</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/</link>
	<description>Exploring football culture around the world.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: annakat</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-5743</link>
		<dc:creator>annakat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-5743</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post. Girls and women need a little positive feed back every once in a while.  I've never understood the need to put women down by some.  Maybe some men still feel threatened especially by a real good female athletic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post. Girls and women need a little positive feed back every once in a while.  I&#8217;ve never understood the need to put women down by some.  Maybe some men still feel threatened especially by a real good female athletic.</p>
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		<title>By: In Which I Mention HollyCornblog but NOT Pia (Oops ... Guess I Just Did)! &#124; JordanCornblog</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-5019</link>
		<dc:creator>In Which I Mention HollyCornblog but NOT Pia (Oops ... Guess I Just Did)! &#124; JordanCornblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-5019</guid>
		<description>[...] but definitely NOT least, here is a great response by Jennifer Doyle to that NY Times Magazine article about increased injuries to female athletes. Doyle pens a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but definitely NOT least, here is a great response by Jennifer Doyle to that NY Times Magazine article about increased injuries to female athletes. Doyle pens a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Doyle</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4882</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4882</guid>
		<description>Dear Marius Locke,

I encourage you to click through on the links that I provide to the articles about ACL tears &#38; knee injury prevention.

My comment were written on a blog, not a peer reviewed journal - they represent the well informed perspectives of a woman who has, in fact, dedicated her life to feminist thought &#38; criticism.  Please see links on my blog if you want to know more about my work.  From A Left Wing, though, is something I do for me and for the folks out there interested in a queer-positive feminist marxist slant on things. 

There are intersting books written by coaches &#38; training staff, as well as sociologists about women athletes etc. 

Both ways?  What do you mean?  I don't dispute that gender difference matters.  What I dispute is how we frame stories about gender difference. My argument with that story, as I state above, is with the way it is framed - read my responses above if you want to guess what I think about your comments.

And, hey, when you take your team to nationals multiple times, and send your girls to Division I NCAA programs on full rides, well, then you can talk to me about my sister. I'm sorry, but she is actually a very excellent model for how one might think about gender difference and key aspects of coaching to them.  Lots of luck to you, and to the young women you coach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Marius Locke,</p>
<p>I encourage you to click through on the links that I provide to the articles about ACL tears &amp; knee injury prevention.</p>
<p>My comment were written on a blog, not a peer reviewed journal - they represent the well informed perspectives of a woman who has, in fact, dedicated her life to feminist thought &amp; criticism.  Please see links on my blog if you want to know more about my work.  From A Left Wing, though, is something I do for me and for the folks out there interested in a queer-positive feminist marxist slant on things. </p>
<p>There are intersting books written by coaches &amp; training staff, as well as sociologists about women athletes etc. </p>
<p>Both ways?  What do you mean?  I don&#8217;t dispute that gender difference matters.  What I dispute is how we frame stories about gender difference. My argument with that story, as I state above, is with the way it is framed - read my responses above if you want to guess what I think about your comments.</p>
<p>And, hey, when you take your team to nationals multiple times, and send your girls to Division I NCAA programs on full rides, well, then you can talk to me about my sister. I&#8217;m sorry, but she is actually a very excellent model for how one might think about gender difference and key aspects of coaching to them.  Lots of luck to you, and to the young women you coach.</p>
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		<title>By: Marius Locke</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4879</link>
		<dc:creator>Marius Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 12:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4879</guid>
		<description>Hello, 

I came across your response while looking for information on how to coach girls in soccer. Just by chance, I had read the NY Times article but took a completely different view. To me it was an interesting medical issue and the frequency of female ACL injuries very concerning. I am glad I now know this information. I went away thinking about what can be done do to minimize these injuries for my daughters and her fellow athletes.  There does not seem to be any clarity on how to currently do this which is very unfortunate.

While I appreciate your point of view. I found your response weak and primarily based on exceptions and unsubstantiated beliefs. This is inappropriate- please back up your points with real data.  The reference to your sister coaching runners is inappropriate and bar talk. What did you really contribute?  

For example: 
YOUR PARAPHRASE: The author then goes on the explain how girls develop differently - e.g. boys gain more muscle, but become less flexible; girls get fatter but more flexible. The author’s language flirts dangerously close to naturalizing girls and women as weaker, more delicate etc (I’m not the only one to spot this slant). WHAT WAS STATED IS LIKELY TRUE AND PERHAPS AN IMPORTANT FACT IN THE ETIOLOGY OF THE INJURIES. AND WOMEN MIGHT BECOME INJURIES DUE TO THESE MALE, FEMALE DIFFERENCES-STRENGTH BEING ONE OF THEM. 

YOUR LATER RESPONSE: One must recognize gender differences in order to coach/train/treat athletes well. Those differences may be physiological, metabolic, social and psychological. SO THERE ARE DIFFERENCES (do not forget anatomical, genetic and physical). THIS SEEMS LIKE A CONTRADICTION FROM WHAT YOU STATE ABOVE.  YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, </p>
<p>I came across your response while looking for information on how to coach girls in soccer. Just by chance, I had read the NY Times article but took a completely different view. To me it was an interesting medical issue and the frequency of female ACL injuries very concerning. I am glad I now know this information. I went away thinking about what can be done do to minimize these injuries for my daughters and her fellow athletes.  There does not seem to be any clarity on how to currently do this which is very unfortunate.</p>
<p>While I appreciate your point of view. I found your response weak and primarily based on exceptions and unsubstantiated beliefs. This is inappropriate- please back up your points with real data.  The reference to your sister coaching runners is inappropriate and bar talk. What did you really contribute?  </p>
<p>For example:<br />
YOUR PARAPHRASE: The author then goes on the explain how girls develop differently - e.g. boys gain more muscle, but become less flexible; girls get fatter but more flexible. The author’s language flirts dangerously close to naturalizing girls and women as weaker, more delicate etc (I’m not the only one to spot this slant). WHAT WAS STATED IS LIKELY TRUE AND PERHAPS AN IMPORTANT FACT IN THE ETIOLOGY OF THE INJURIES. AND WOMEN MIGHT BECOME INJURIES DUE TO THESE MALE, FEMALE DIFFERENCES-STRENGTH BEING ONE OF THEM. </p>
<p>YOUR LATER RESPONSE: One must recognize gender differences in order to coach/train/treat athletes well. Those differences may be physiological, metabolic, social and psychological. SO THERE ARE DIFFERENCES (do not forget anatomical, genetic and physical). THIS SEEMS LIKE A CONTRADICTION FROM WHAT YOU STATE ABOVE.  YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.</p>
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		<title>By: Reed</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4821</link>
		<dc:creator>Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4821</guid>
		<description>"And, most problematic of all: we don’t listen to girls. We don’t take their complaints seriously. We dismiss their complaints as teenage melodrama or psychosomatic weakness."

I don't think adults listen to boys much either. Look at how many high school football players have died of dehydration or how many little league pitchers throw their arms out before they even reach high school. So many coaches and parents (dads, mostly, I suppose) assume that anything that doesn't kill the boy makes him stronger...until, you know, it actually does kill him. 

Coaches and parents just need to be a lot more sophisticated in general about how kids' bodies work. Certainly, reading up on the latest research on gender specific issues is an important part of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And, most problematic of all: we don’t listen to girls. We don’t take their complaints seriously. We dismiss their complaints as teenage melodrama or psychosomatic weakness.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think adults listen to boys much either. Look at how many high school football players have died of dehydration or how many little league pitchers throw their arms out before they even reach high school. So many coaches and parents (dads, mostly, I suppose) assume that anything that doesn&#8217;t kill the boy makes him stronger&#8230;until, you know, it actually does kill him. </p>
<p>Coaches and parents just need to be a lot more sophisticated in general about how kids&#8217; bodies work. Certainly, reading up on the latest research on gender specific issues is an important part of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Doyle</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4805</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 13:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4805</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim,

Fact is female athletes have been "getting past it" since, well, they started practicing their sport.

I'd be really interested to know if people have posted "not the forum" in response to the very interesting articles on pitch invasion about racism in football culture. Sexism &#38; homophobia are just as big as issues in football culture.  They are just as important to understand in our efforts to put an end to them. 

Pitchinvasion is, in fact, a real oasis in terms of football websites - most sites rarely cover women's football and never give space to stories written from the perspective of a woman athlete or fan.  Print media is even worse.

The shame of that NYT article is that it's written as though no women athletes read the NYT. Informed women athletes &#38; fans are rarely, rarely imagined as readers of the sports pages.  (Today's Guardian has not one sentence about any woman in any sport in its pages). This is a real indication of how deeply ingrained sexism is in the media.

Deeply embedded in that NYT article is the name of one women who has worked in collaboration with a doctor in Santa Monica, California on knee injury prevention training, and you will find on my blog click-thoughs to information about their work - click throughs not offered by the NYT website. 

Solutions basically come from us politicized &#38; committed feminists (male &#38; female) working in the corners of the culture.  So, it ain't US Soccer.  It's coaches &#38; players, and physiotherapists who really listen to their patients.

I doubt the NYT would publish an article about the same issue written from a feminist perspective - which would recount  horror stories about women athletes being offered career ending surgery as "treatment", and highlight the ways that physiological differences get buried under a male standard, and also by a reluctance to admit that gender differences matter.  In my view, that's the real story.

JD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim,</p>
<p>Fact is female athletes have been &#8220;getting past it&#8221; since, well, they started practicing their sport.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be really interested to know if people have posted &#8220;not the forum&#8221; in response to the very interesting articles on pitch invasion about racism in football culture. Sexism &amp; homophobia are just as big as issues in football culture.  They are just as important to understand in our efforts to put an end to them. </p>
<p>Pitchinvasion is, in fact, a real oasis in terms of football websites - most sites rarely cover women&#8217;s football and never give space to stories written from the perspective of a woman athlete or fan.  Print media is even worse.</p>
<p>The shame of that NYT article is that it&#8217;s written as though no women athletes read the NYT. Informed women athletes &amp; fans are rarely, rarely imagined as readers of the sports pages.  (Today&#8217;s Guardian has not one sentence about any woman in any sport in its pages). This is a real indication of how deeply ingrained sexism is in the media.</p>
<p>Deeply embedded in that NYT article is the name of one women who has worked in collaboration with a doctor in Santa Monica, California on knee injury prevention training, and you will find on my blog click-thoughs to information about their work - click throughs not offered by the NYT website. </p>
<p>Solutions basically come from us politicized &amp; committed feminists (male &amp; female) working in the corners of the culture.  So, it ain&#8217;t US Soccer.  It&#8217;s coaches &amp; players, and physiotherapists who really listen to their patients.</p>
<p>I doubt the NYT would publish an article about the same issue written from a feminist perspective - which would recount  horror stories about women athletes being offered career ending surgery as &#8220;treatment&#8221;, and highlight the ways that physiological differences get buried under a male standard, and also by a reluctance to admit that gender differences matter.  In my view, that&#8217;s the real story.</p>
<p>JD</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4801</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 02:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4801</guid>
		<description>The key question is what is the fix...It appears that organizations (club &#62; school) need education and resources surrounding how to properly train and strengthen the female athlete. 

Who is leading that effort (US Soccer, some medical school?)?

While I appreciate the poorly worded title, get past it, there are some legitimate points &#38; questions raised.  Focus on the solution, not some sociological agenda. Not the forum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key question is what is the fix&#8230;It appears that organizations (club &gt; school) need education and resources surrounding how to properly train and strengthen the female athlete. </p>
<p>Who is leading that effort (US Soccer, some medical school?)?</p>
<p>While I appreciate the poorly worded title, get past it, there are some legitimate points &amp; questions raised.  Focus on the solution, not some sociological agenda. Not the forum.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Doyle</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4693</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 18:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4693</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your comments. The NYT story upset a lot of us. Some of its points are very important, but the story's headline &#38; frame are really awful. Complain to them! Complain loudly! And ask them to give more space to women's sports in general, written for women athletes and men &#38; women fans of women's sports. I mean, I want a story about that women who figured out a program for preventing those injuries - not about people's fear girls might get hurt!  Funny: when a female athlete returns to her sport after giving birth, stories tend to focus on how strong childbirth makes her - as they should - but if she comes back three times from an ACL injury, it makes headlines as a symptom of the weakness of her sex??? It's a basic sort of feminist thing to say, but if male athletes had this problem with ACL tears, it'd have been taken as a standard risk in the sport, and training programs would have been built around preventing this injury from the start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comments. The NYT story upset a lot of us. Some of its points are very important, but the story&#8217;s headline &amp; frame are really awful. Complain to them! Complain loudly! And ask them to give more space to women&#8217;s sports in general, written for women athletes and men &amp; women fans of women&#8217;s sports. I mean, I want a story about that women who figured out a program for preventing those injuries - not about people&#8217;s fear girls might get hurt!  Funny: when a female athlete returns to her sport after giving birth, stories tend to focus on how strong childbirth makes her - as they should - but if she comes back three times from an ACL injury, it makes headlines as a symptom of the weakness of her sex??? It&#8217;s a basic sort of feminist thing to say, but if male athletes had this problem with ACL tears, it&#8217;d have been taken as a standard risk in the sport, and training programs would have been built around preventing this injury from the start.</p>
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		<title>By: Inca</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4690</link>
		<dc:creator>Inca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 16:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4690</guid>
		<description>Outstanding.  

Just reading the description of the piece on the cover of the magazine, you knew the conclusion and slant of the article before reading the thousands of words in it.  The teaser was something like "Are we ready to accept our girls getting injured more?"  Gee, I wonder what the writer thinks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Outstanding.  </p>
<p>Just reading the description of the piece on the cover of the magazine, you knew the conclusion and slant of the article before reading the thousands of words in it.  The teaser was something like &#8220;Are we ready to accept our girls getting injured more?&#8221;  Gee, I wonder what the writer thinks&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Dunmore</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4628</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Dunmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 20:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/05/14/sexism-hurts/#comment-4628</guid>
		<description>That's a good idea about alerting Peter to this, ursus, I will definitely do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good idea about alerting Peter to this, ursus, I will definitely do that.</p>
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