Plus, Polish ultras is quite young- dates back to 2001 if I recall well. Back then England already wasn’t a good inspiration and USA is trying to develop it’s ultras right now, so we might be pretty close in the end.

Did the Boulougne Boys at PSG form after ‘84? I thought that they were already there when I first went to the Parc in late ‘83, though it is perfectly possible that I am conflating that experience with my much more frequent visits later in the decade. As it happens, I have an article from So Foot that no doubt answers the question, but I can’t find it right now, and know that you know the answer at least as well as the author of the article in question.

The current generational and style mix in the German Fankurven at the moment is indeed very interesting, and worthy of an article in itself. The idea of denim and patch-bedecked and mullet wearing “Fussballfan” in an Italian Curva is too ridiculous to contemplate, but some how it still works at home.

As far as I know Italy is the inspiration for the entire ultra movement in Europe. From its establishement in the mid 70’s as the structured setup we are familiar with, it took nearly a decade to come out of it, with the first places to turn to it outside its borders being very close to the Italian sphere of influence (Commando Ultras in Marseille in 84 and Ragazzi della Nord also in 84 in Lugano at the ice hockey club being two of the most famous examples) and it was not before the early 90’s that the spread went further “inland” with groups being born in France and Switzerland (in the French and Italian speaking part, Section Grenat of Servette Geneva becoming an the first major ultra group in 94). Nothern European countries were generally quite reluctant to abandon the looser English model but nowadays Germany has some really excellent “curvas”, shared between the older fan type (jeans jackets with patches and scarves on the arms…) and the modern ultra.

I think the case is pretty simple. England after Taylor’s report and Poland after communism are 2 different worlds. When it comes to infrastructure, stadium safety, political engagement and general social conditions we are a lot closer to Italians (or were, today’s Polish emigration to Britain is changing the situation rapidly). And I think this is just the soil for ultras.
I don’t think it’s because of the Pope or Boniek. We also don’t see Serie A or… any league (even Polish) on free tv and few people can afford to pay for digital or satelite tv.

Plus, Polish ultras is quite young- dates back to 2001 if I recall well. Back then England already wasn’t a good inspiration and USA is trying to develop it’s ultras right now, so we might be pretty close in the end.

Given how many other aspects of Polish culture in the post-Communist era have been heavily influenced by American and (to a lesser extent) British models, it is interesting to me to see that when it comes to ultras, the model seems very much to be an Italian one. Might you have some ideas as to why that is the case? The number of Poles living and visiting Italy certainly increased dramatically under Woytla’s papacy, but I would doubt that explains what happens in football grounds. Is there a Boniek effect of some sort? Have Serie A matches been regularly available on Polish television for a long time?

Spangly Princess- I may say without slightest doubt that no left wing party would ever succeed in gaining support inside Polish stadia. Most supporters in general are on the right side of the political scene, but I wouldn’t risk saying there is a direct corelation between ultras and political groups. However, this is only my view and I’m not an “insider” for this matter.

that being said, seems like poland and the ukraine are racing against the clock to get the prep going for 2012. some of the road work is coming along, slowly albeit it but construction on the stadia appears to be in something of a state. as of my last trip there this past summer, krakow lacked a UEFA certified stadium. not certain the public transportation system has or will have the capacity to handle the strain that the masses of supporters will place on it either.

in general, i found the country absolutely all right. the people are kind and helpful, most can communicate fairly well in english (they are very pro america and heard johnny cash and rem everywhere), and the soups and stews are brilliant. not a place for the diet conscious though.

bit unfair really to single out poland as quite a few of the new european states have similar problems namely, croatia, serbia, czech republic / slovakia and russia.

How far, if at all, do political movements operate within the context of ultras groups - not necessarily nazis, but of any persuasion? In Italy there is an element of deliberate recruitment of ultras as political supporters, is there any parallel in Poland?