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	<title>Comments on: Where Next for MLS? 2. St Louis</title>
	<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/</link>
	<description>Exploring football culture around the world.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: St Louis Missouri News</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-4557</link>
		<dc:creator>St Louis Missouri News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 04:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-4557</guid>
		<description>I read that they cant use the word "united" in thier name as part of a new franchise - it looks like DC united filed a claim so i guess they need to find another name for this new team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read that they cant use the word &#8220;united&#8221; in thier name as part of a new franchise - it looks like DC united filed a claim so i guess they need to find another name for this new team.</p>
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		<title>By: Pitch Invasion &#187; Lead Story &#187; Where Next for MLS? 3. New York City</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3811</link>
		<dc:creator>Pitch Invasion &#187; Lead Story &#187; Where Next for MLS? 3. New York City</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3811</guid>
		<description>[...] looked at two of the candidates MLS is considering for the next expansion franchise, Miami and St Louis. New York City is one that seems to have been overlooked in the discussion, but it&#8217;s not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] looked at two of the candidates MLS is considering for the next expansion franchise, Miami and St Louis. New York City is one that seems to have been overlooked in the discussion, but it&#8217;s not [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Timoteo</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3774</link>
		<dc:creator>Timoteo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3774</guid>
		<description>Metro,
I don't know if the MLS would accept that type of ownership.  I think if a group could raise that type of interest and money they'd be hardpressed to ignore it.

I don't think that 60,000 putting in $1000 would necessarily be out of the question, because people would be buying into being owners.  And you wouldn't have to necessarily even get 60,000.  Probably when you start raising serious money say 30 million or 40 million, you could start get corporate sponsorships, since it would be a non-profit organization.  I'd like to see someone try.  Portland or St. Louis would be the ideal cities to try it, in my opinion.  Maybe with Portland, start by buying the USL Timbers with the idea of getting the idea out there, and then bring it to the next level.    It might take 3-4 years to raise that kind of cash, but it would demonstrate the depth of commitment of the fan base in a city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metro,<br />
I don&#8217;t know if the MLS would accept that type of ownership.  I think if a group could raise that type of interest and money they&#8217;d be hardpressed to ignore it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that 60,000 putting in $1000 would necessarily be out of the question, because people would be buying into being owners.  And you wouldn&#8217;t have to necessarily even get 60,000.  Probably when you start raising serious money say 30 million or 40 million, you could start get corporate sponsorships, since it would be a non-profit organization.  I&#8217;d like to see someone try.  Portland or St. Louis would be the ideal cities to try it, in my opinion.  Maybe with Portland, start by buying the USL Timbers with the idea of getting the idea out there, and then bring it to the next level.    It might take 3-4 years to raise that kind of cash, but it would demonstrate the depth of commitment of the fan base in a city.</p>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>Apparently the #8 commenter has been saying that to all of the KC citizens as they tried to enter the stadium to watch the Wiz play too.

They should move them to St. Louis, move the KC Royals anywhere else in the country, but they can have the Chiefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently the #8 commenter has been saying that to all of the KC citizens as they tried to enter the stadium to watch the Wiz play too.</p>
<p>They should move them to St. Louis, move the KC Royals anywhere else in the country, but they can have the Chiefs.</p>
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		<title>By: The Metrologist</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3744</link>
		<dc:creator>The Metrologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3744</guid>
		<description>"As I’ve said in other blogs, if fans in a city are serious about getting a team, why not try to do a Barcelona/Green Bay Packers scenario and get 60,000 people to put in $1000 plus $100/year to become members of a fan owned team. Portland? Montreal?"

Because fan ownership does not, in any way shape or form, fit into the vision of the people running MLS.  It's their club, they don't have to let you in if they don't want to, and there's no way they want to accept a supporter's trust/MYFC type setup.

Also, you have no chance of getting 6000, never mind 60,000 people to stump up anything like that kind of money anywhere in this country.  

Also, neither Barcelona nor the Green Bay Packers *began* life with tens of thousands of people pitching hundreds or thousands of dollars in to become "co-owners".  From much smaller beginnings...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As I’ve said in other blogs, if fans in a city are serious about getting a team, why not try to do a Barcelona/Green Bay Packers scenario and get 60,000 people to put in $1000 plus $100/year to become members of a fan owned team. Portland? Montreal?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because fan ownership does not, in any way shape or form, fit into the vision of the people running MLS.  It&#8217;s their club, they don&#8217;t have to let you in if they don&#8217;t want to, and there&#8217;s no way they want to accept a supporter&#8217;s trust/MYFC type setup.</p>
<p>Also, you have no chance of getting 6000, never mind 60,000 people to stump up anything like that kind of money anywhere in this country.  </p>
<p>Also, neither Barcelona nor the Green Bay Packers *began* life with tens of thousands of people pitching hundreds or thousands of dollars in to become &#8220;co-owners&#8221;.  From much smaller beginnings&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: STLSportsMag.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Morning Tailgate</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3743</link>
		<dc:creator>STLSportsMag.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Morning Tailgate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3743</guid>
		<description>[...] guy thinks St. Louis has a solid case for landing an MLS team.  He even mapped out his reasons.  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] guy thinks St. Louis has a solid case for landing an MLS team.  He even mapped out his reasons.  [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: 18 March. The News and Blogs you might have Missed &#171; Kansas City Soccer Review</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3742</link>
		<dc:creator>18 March. The News and Blogs you might have Missed &#171; Kansas City Soccer Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3742</guid>
		<description>[...] March 18, 2008 &#183; No Comments  Where Next for MLS? 2. St Louis [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] March 18, 2008 &middot; No Comments  Where Next for MLS? 2. St Louis [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: ursus arctos</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3740</link>
		<dc:creator>ursus arctos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3740</guid>
		<description>Papa Bear, a "franchise system" per se doesn't give the "league office" the right "to tell whoever they want to move".  It does require that the the league (generally by super-majority vote of the other owners) approve any franchise relocations, but short of buying the team or revoking the franchise (each of which would be an extraordinary step), there isn't a mechanism for forcing teams to move.  That would not have been the case if MLS itself owned the franchise (as it did many teams in the early days of the league), but KC now has an ownership group who have taken over from the Hunts and appear to be committed to staying in the area.  That could of course change (particularly if they can't bring their stadium and other plans to fruition), but until it does, the league's ability to infuence the situation is limited.

It it somewhat interesting to note in this context that the soccer/football leagues that have seen the most "forced relocation" in recent years have not been operated on the North American franchise model, but are rather "old school" leagues like those in Scotland and England, who have used stadium regulations on minimum capacity, security and the like to effectively force teams to play elsewhere (see, e.g., Gretna having to play at Motherwell, which is 75 miles away, or Inverness Caledonian Thistle having to play at Aberdeen, which is 150 miles away) or alternatively refuse promotion that they had won on the field (several examples in the English Conference, and in Falkirk's case, be denied promotion even after agreeing to move).  While these are intended to be temporary measures, they can end up having a lasting effect on a club's fortunes (and in Gretna's case are likely to be permanent in retrospect, given the club's current plight).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Papa Bear, a &#8220;franchise system&#8221; per se doesn&#8217;t give the &#8220;league office&#8221; the right &#8220;to tell whoever they want to move&#8221;.  It does require that the the league (generally by super-majority vote of the other owners) approve any franchise relocations, but short of buying the team or revoking the franchise (each of which would be an extraordinary step), there isn&#8217;t a mechanism for forcing teams to move.  That would not have been the case if MLS itself owned the franchise (as it did many teams in the early days of the league), but KC now has an ownership group who have taken over from the Hunts and appear to be committed to staying in the area.  That could of course change (particularly if they can&#8217;t bring their stadium and other plans to fruition), but until it does, the league&#8217;s ability to infuence the situation is limited.</p>
<p>It it somewhat interesting to note in this context that the soccer/football leagues that have seen the most &#8220;forced relocation&#8221; in recent years have not been operated on the North American franchise model, but are rather &#8220;old school&#8221; leagues like those in Scotland and England, who have used stadium regulations on minimum capacity, security and the like to effectively force teams to play elsewhere (see, e.g., Gretna having to play at Motherwell, which is 75 miles away, or Inverness Caledonian Thistle having to play at Aberdeen, which is 150 miles away) or alternatively refuse promotion that they had won on the field (several examples in the English Conference, and in Falkirk&#8217;s case, be denied promotion even after agreeing to move).  While these are intended to be temporary measures, they can end up having a lasting effect on a club&#8217;s fortunes (and in Gretna&#8217;s case are likely to be permanent in retrospect, given the club&#8217;s current plight).</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3738</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3738</guid>
		<description>Hey, I can respect the whole 'three divisions doesn't work' idea...but I haven't seen nor read anything that would lead me to believe that MLS is looking into a single table or promotion/relegation format.

Would I like the possibility of a USL side (like Montreal or Rochester) making it to the MLS for a season?  Absolutely.  But I don't see it happening.

I just don't like the idea of East Coast vs. West Coast, that's all...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I can respect the whole &#8216;three divisions doesn&#8217;t work&#8217; idea&#8230;but I haven&#8217;t seen nor read anything that would lead me to believe that MLS is looking into a single table or promotion/relegation format.</p>
<p>Would I like the possibility of a USL side (like Montreal or Rochester) making it to the MLS for a season?  Absolutely.  But I don&#8217;t see it happening.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t like the idea of East Coast vs. West Coast, that&#8217;s all&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Dunmore</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3735</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Dunmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/17/where-next-for-mls-2-st-louis/#comment-3735</guid>
		<description>I'm just having my cake and eating it, Timoteo.  I said the posts are going to discuss the cities most likely to get franchises and not those without an imminent opportunity. But yeah, I'm interested in what they're bringing to the table aside from the factors you list as mattering to MLS.  Let's think about them as fans too.  Otherwise we wouldn't be having a very fun conversation....We'd be in a boardroom. 

That's an interesting idea about fan ownership, too, though I think that MLS wouldn't actually allow it.  The NFL, basically the model MLS lusts after, has banned not-for-profit ownership for decades (the Packers are grandfathered in).  MLS would take a lot of convincing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just having my cake and eating it, Timoteo.  I said the posts are going to discuss the cities most likely to get franchises and not those without an imminent opportunity. But yeah, I&#8217;m interested in what they&#8217;re bringing to the table aside from the factors you list as mattering to MLS.  Let&#8217;s think about them as fans too.  Otherwise we wouldn&#8217;t be having a very fun conversation&#8230;.We&#8217;d be in a boardroom. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s an interesting idea about fan ownership, too, though I think that MLS wouldn&#8217;t actually allow it.  The NFL, basically the model MLS lusts after, has banned not-for-profit ownership for decades (the Packers are grandfathered in).  MLS would take a lot of convincing.</p>
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