Where Next for MLS? 1. Miami
Standing still, it seems, would be as foolish for MLS as reintroducing shootouts to decide drawn games. Expansion will be coming again, and soon. The success of Toronto and the excitement in Seattle, San Jose and Philadelphia over their teams — all awarded in the last year — has wetted appetites elsewhere.
Today we’ll look at Miami, and follow-up in the coming days by considering St Louis, New York City, and the Canadian candidates.
Miami
Background
You can’t consider Florida and MLS without noting that two previous franchises there have failed. In 2001, the Miami Fusion folded in their fourth year of attendance, and it was a bitter, bitter end for all involved: the club achieved its highest average attendance that season (11,177) and finished first in the Eastern Conference. Coached by Ray Hudson — yes, that Ray Hudson — they dominated the league before falling to the San Jose Earthquakes in the semi-finals of the playoffs. But four months later, the league leaking money like nobody’s business, Miami ceased to exist.
A Miami Herald writer recently recalled that sorry end:
Average attendance rose from 7,460 in 2000 to 11,177 in 2001, which is way more than the Marlins and Heat get on some nights. There was a real energy at Lockhart that season, a feeling like this was the start of something special. And then, just when things were getting really fun, the team folded. Not enough fans. Not enough money. The Fusion died at age 4.
So whilst the Fusion did fail, it is worth remembering that they were getting somewhere.
Stadium
Miami played in Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, some way out from Miami itself (almost 30 miles). The situation would be different this time. The City of Miami is looking to fund new soccer and baseball stadiums on the site of the old Orange Bowl. The former would cost $100 million and seat 25,000 and be located just a mile from downtown. Ironically, it was at the Orange Bowl that Miami were first set to play back in 1997 — the collapse of that damaged the team initially
Supporters
There’s a lot of talk that Miami is not a “soccer” city, as much of its immigrant population and transient tourist based economy doesn’t match the profile of your typical soccer fan. But let’s be honest: if Columbus can support an MLS team, surely Miami can too. Moreover, the demographic profile of Miami has changed since 2001, with more traditionally soccer-orientated immigrants moving in.
Some local supporters are, in the vein of the Sons of Ben, taking matters into their own hands. MiamiSoccerFan.com is selling t-shirts, running a petition, and connecting with people via Facebook. At the moment they seem to be around the size of the Sons of Ben twelve months ago. As whispers of MLS in Miami grow, perhaps they can get some of that same momentum and give a big push to the effort. As their site says, “It is time to wage war! We need to attack all media markets. Radio, newspapers, television, internet and MLS Headquarters need to hear about our passion and desire for an MLS team in Miami.”
Backing
What’s less clear about Miami is where the financial backing is coming from. It seems that USL side Miami FC have talked to MLS, but whether they have connections to the deep pockets needed to get into MLS these days is unclear. With MLS now demanding over $30 million upfront just to join the league, Miami will need to find some serious investors. There have also been rumours of Boca Juniors starting a team there, but that seems somewhat far-fetched.
Overall
If Miami can get investors involved, and the Mayor backs a stadium effort, MLS would probably jump at the chance to establish themselves down south again in a heartbeat. Would it be the right decision? It’s a lot easier to launch an MLS team now than it was over ten years ago. The league is established and media attention greater. Soccer has grown. If it can’t succeed in Miami now, it’s not as strong as we think. What are your thoughts on Miami’s candidacy?
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Sorry, but Miami is a horrible sports market, especially for sports that are played in the summer. They don’t support their current teams and there is no indication they would support a future MLS side. Watching a game in the summer there is like sitting in a sauna. I think they had their one shot at MLS and if they do somehow get a team they would compete with KC for the smallest crowds in the league. On paper the city looks great, but in reality it is not a good sports city. I say this having lived in Florida for a number of years.
To go along with what Bob said, there seems to be some bad juju on Miami sports now. The Heat and the Dolphins both stink, the Marlins have never attracted crowds even when they were winning World Serieses, and the teams at The U have become a joke. I don’t think throwing a soccer team into the mix would really pick things up and get people interested.
St. Louis is one of the “spiritual homes” of American soccer, and would instantaneously create another rivalry, with Chicago.
You must be kidding, right?? Miami can’t even support the USL team they have right now, so why give them MLS. I realize the situation where they lost the Fusion was a bit out of their control and I was surprised the team folded to be honest. When you have other areas with proven support, I think you need to strongly consider other areas.
The fact that you’re highlighting cities without including Portland is interesting though, cause we support our team very well here, and the stadium we play in has gotten new turf finally. If you’re talking MLS expansion, you can’t seriously cover the topic without talking about the Rose City.
Not to sound like a naysayer…but Miami/Florida had their chance and blew it (or, see what Bob and Evan said above). St. Louis will be Kansas City redux…and does the league need another Wizards or Crew? As far as the rivalry between St. Louis and Chicago, I think that’s more in the mind of a St. Louis booster than any Chicago fans…I don’t see it. You want an instant rivalry and viable support you have to look at Portland, Or. and the Timbers. You’ll have an instant AND fierce rivalry with the toxic waste dump on the Puget Sound and a ready made, rabid supporters group. Throw in an enthusiastic ownership group and you have your franchise. Don’t get me wrong, from a financial/public money standpoint, I see the difficulties; but Portland is the best choice for the good of the league/growth of soccer culture in the US.
Whats the deal with signing a petition? How about taking a look at giant fanbase already established. Not a bunch of signatures, not a bunch of “MEMBERS”, not a bunch of SOB’s, but people that support their team through and through. True supporters forever more! RCTID
If Miami wants serious consideration for MLS, they should start supporting the USL club they have there now. Miami FC’s average attendance was about 950 last season. Compare that to Montreal, which regularly has five-digit attendance figures for the Impact.
The fact that 10,000+ showed up at Qwest Field for the Seattle Sounders’ US Open Cup semifinal against FC Dallas helped make Seattle’s case for an expansion franchise. Sure, they still needed good organization behind the expansion bid, but seeing 10K in the stands to support a USL club in a competition nobody cares that much about… well, I have a hard time imagining MLS execs weren’t just a little impressed by that.
I’d consider St. Louis and Montreal well ahead of Miami. I’d also consider Portland, but I wonder how much John Canzano ruined that city’s hopes when he hung up on MLS commish Don Gerber.
GK107, I love the Timbers fans as much as anyone outside Portland. They’re superb, and we’ve covered them here before as a great example of American soccer passion. But this is a series about teams MLS are seriously considering for 16th-18th franchises — I’d love you to tell me I’m wrong, but is there really momentum (and what that really means is a lot of money) behind a Portland bid and has MLS shown serious interest? To my knowledge, not since Seattle was picked. I know it’d be great if they got in, I just don’t think it’s happening soon.
I’m also not convinced supporting or not supporting well a USL team is going to impact on MLS’ decision. Rochester, anyone? Remember when they seemed a shoo-in for MLS due to their crowds? And obviously, Portland was much better than Seattle for USL support, and that wasn’t a factor.
Plus, as we’ve seen again and again, MLS bottom line is….the bottom line. What I’m trying to do is seriously consider who MLS might give a franchise to, and there’s no doubt Miami’s in the top three. Of course Portland beats them for soccer passion as demonstrated thus far, but a hundred million dollar stadium for free is not something MLS usually turns down. Which is why St Louis are still also in the running.
Cap Ap, believe me, every Chicago fan wants a St Louis franchise. We’re really isolated from everywhere except Columbus and Toronto (and the latter don’t even want us showing up there). An Illinois derby (their stadium would technically be in Illinois, not Missouri) would be brilliant fun.
But I asked the question about what you guys thought about Miami at the end as I knew people would have serious concerns, so it’s interesting to read them. The weather is definitely an issue, I believe summer storms killed the crowds on a number of occasions for the Fusion.
Portland?
Stadium – check, just get the Beavers relocated
Support – check
Ownership – check, I’m pretty sure between Paulson, his Dad, and friends that they’ve got the money to do it
Marching Band – sorry
Petitions – sorry
Tom, I agree with you, you don’t hear alot about Portland MLS in the news anymore. Alot of credit is and has been doled out to “fans” and cities just because they make some noise with their petitions. So what if you don’t hear about us in the news. Fact of the matter is that, yes, Portland is primed for an expansion slot. If it happens, so be it. I would love it. But to tell you the truth the MLS needs Portland more then we need them. We will continue to support our USL side better then most MLS sides out there.
Where do you see the MLS in 10 years??? Half empty stadiums don’t look so good when there are bills to be paid.
harmsway01, I agree with you 100%. Sadly that is not how MLS thinks. I’m also not sure Paulson is committed enough (we’re probably talking $40M just to get through the door) to take Portland into MLS, but I don’t know enough about him to say for sure at all. What do Portland fans think? Are Paulson and his buddies prepared to invest what it takes?
The problem, from my perspective, rests less with Paulson, et al and more with the city of Portland. I think Merritt would be willing to pony up the bucks, and has the enthusiasm for it, but the voters here are pretty against the idea of public funds going to a sports team. I suspect it’s more of a knee-jerk reaction then a real distaste but what do I know? I’m surprised that a St. Louis rivalry would be any kind of deal…is it purely a proximity thing? I mean, the Rams and Bears aren’t exactly known as big time rivalry to my knowledge. I can’t understand the Miami thing in the least. Like I said before, it failed once…the state doesn’t support the (many) high level sports teams it has now, the real soccer aficinados in the area already (mostly) have a team they support more heartily than a new MLS team. MLS is going to be the new NASL…then, in 20 years, we’ll be talking about these decisions like we talk about the money the Cosmos and all payed for talent.
By the way, TD…thanks for the great blog. It’s one of the only soccer blogs I visit every day, keep up the godo work. I know this isn’t really the space for such comments but wanted to say regardless. (Though what happened to “It’s in the (inter)net!”?) PS – I’m not trying to troll your non-Timbers articles with Timbers stuff, but it kills me to see any kind of press going to freakin’ Miami for expansion…it’s a travesty as far as I’m concerned.
It comes down to proximity, really. A stadium close enough we can hire buses and travel to means we’d take hundreds of people, and if they can do something similar back to Chicago (which Columbus can’t) we’d have a great rivalry going. I’m excited that the guy behind the St Louis effort said he’d welcome large numbers of travelling Chicago fans. Plus the Cubs and Cardinals has long been a rivalry of sorts.
Thanks for the kind comments about the blog, Cap Ap. Appreciate it. All I’d add on Miami is they do have some passionate fans there too. Maybe not as many as Portland, but they do exist.
I think Miami needs a team back. If they can get the solid backing and put together a better solid bid than i wanna see NYC and Miami get clubs. that turns into 18 teams. i think they sit at 18 for a while but if they were to goto 20, i wanna see St. Louis and Montreal also get teams to make it 20 and run a home and away season like the prem. after those 4, im not sure many other cities can put together solid bids.
in order:
NYC2
Miami
Montreal
St. Louis
“I’m surprised that a St. Louis rivalry would be any kind of deal…is it purely a proximity thing? I mean, the Rams and Bears aren’t exactly known as big time rivalry to my knowledge.”
The Rams are newcomers…the Bears used to have a rivalry with the St. Louis Cardinals. But really, there aren’t many rivalries in the NFL between teams in different divisions. And like Tom said, there is a healthy Cubs/Cards rivalry.
Well, I’m sure that you’ve spent more time in Florida/Miami than I have (I’ve never been), but I’ve watched multiple US National Team (including the recent qualifying between US/Cuba and US/Panama) and USL games played there and the passionate fans must be dressed up as empty seats (or a pirate ship in the case of Raymond James Stadium). But, like has been discussed, it’s not about support, just cash. MLS would put another team in Kansas City if someone wanted to pony up the cash…I just wish the emphasis was placed elsewhere, sometimes. Call me a dreamer…
Ok… My thought was always that MLS had to expand to all parts of the US…i dont think it is 100% necessary now though:
NE: Check
W: Check
MidW: Check
S: Check
NW: sorta check
MidN: sorta check
SW: NO
SE: NO
I’d love to see a team in NYC, but i don’t think that it should be done until after Red Bull Park opens and how people from the city react
Rochester: Minor league city with a minor league team – makes sense to me
Florida/Atlanta/Carolinas – very interesting… florida could make a case for it, but they did fail with 2 teams in the past and according to lots of people, florida really isnt a sports area…Atlanta or N/S Carolina would be cool because they have upcoming/new stadiums that could get expanded – still may fall into nascar country and not do well though…
St Louis – Should definitely be the 17th team in MLS…people call it a soccer city and they have fans and some sort of stadium/ownership i think…2012
Cleveland/Minnesota/(Detroit) – USL is good…will be good with future MLS 2nd division
San Antonio – MLS2
Portland – Should definitely be the 18th team in MLS…great fans, upgradeable stadium, good rivalry with seattle…2012 with St Louis
Montreal/Vancouver – Could be strong candidates for possibly (hopefully) the last 2 spots in MLS – 19th and 20th … good rivalry with Portland/Toronto etc etc…New stadiums coming (Montreal already has theirs) 2014/5 if one or both get in…
Phoenix – Good for MLS2…o well US southwest
Las Vegas – could be the “St. Pauli” of MLS 2 imo…not a major league city i think
San Diego – Talk about Chivas moving there… but that is the only way they should/could get a team…we’re not the MLB with 5 teams in cali…MLS2 coming soon
MLS should not expand past 20 teams…they will eventually go to single table and playoffs – as it should be and stay for a long time… 38 game seasons and in the future, pro/rel with MLS2 which will also have 20 teams
@CApAp: as Evan pointed out the Bears vs. Cardinals was a big rivalry and Cubs vs. Cards is as big as any in baseball. The Blackhawks and Blues have a healthy rivalry as well in a sport that is arguably less popular than soccer in the US
re Miami: sorry, no. The demographic has changed a bit but Cubans are still the biggest group and we all know Cubans are baseball mad and look at how poorly the Marlins even when they are winning are supported. If they can’t get the Cuban community interested in baseball, how do they expect to get anyone interested in soccer?
The ‘but the attendance was up!’ argument doesn’t hold much water for me either. Miami is a lot like LA. Lots of people from other places who support the teams from whence they came. These same people normally only come out for the local teams when they are on a roll (like Miami was in their final year)
The only saving grace for LA County is the sheer massiveness of the population. If that number of people were in the Chicago metro area every team would have to have a 200K seat stadium.
I’m sure that MLS would like to expand into the south east but it’s tough to find a good choice as most of the cities there simply aren’t great sports towns. One could argue it’s because they get ignored a lot, but the fact reamains. I don’t see this happening very near term unless there is a sudden boom in interest for MLS.
Oh and on a side note; I am SICK of hearing about NY2. Garber is a jackass if he puts another team in NY. I hear constant nonsense about ‘well the meadowlands is 25 minutes from NY!’
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again the Giants and Jets both have no problems getting tons of people down there from NYC. Granted, NFL is several orders more popular than MLS but the fact remains, if you market well and put out a good team New Yorkers will make the trek to the swamp.
RBNY is barely a draw as it is I can’t imagine what would happen if they divided that market AGAIN now that Philly has divided it. I’d frankly be more interested in seeing Cleveland, Cincinatti or Pittsburgh get in on the ‘action’ of expansion (after St. Louis who is the no-brainer next choice IMO). They are all close to Columbus and reasonable enough for Toronto and Chicago to get to and they aren’t all that far from DC or Philly so there are some natural rivalries.
Milwaukee would be great too. It’s a shame Wilt wasn’t able to make something happen there.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I went to the first pro game in pittsburgh that they’ve ever had (roma-chelsea)
it was a solid crowd and people were interested…definitely on the rise in pittsburgh, and would make a good MLS2 team…
If MLS does not find Miami(South Florida) fans worthy of a team then the loss is theirs not ours.
We the fans of Miami, Broward and Palm Beach Counties are stronger then MLS and we will survive.
Amen.
I have this theory about MLS expansion that the league should work on bridging the gaps that currently exist. So, there’s a big gap between KC and Chicago. Put a team in St. Louis and fans from both cities can make the trip. Rather than putting a team in Miami, put a team in North Carolina or Atlanta, to make an inroad into the Southern market: don’t isolate a new team. We have enough franchises in this country that the league can avoid those gaps which are so counterproductive to the growth of rivalries.
As a Chicagoan, too, I firmly believe that a St. Louis-Chicago derby would quickly become one of the more heated in the league, easily rivaling the derbies between, um, the other heated derbies which currently abound. Dallas-Houston or something like that. I know I don’t really care one iota about Toronto, Columbus, and KC, and I really only care about New England because of our playoff history, but St. Louis is a natural competitor to Chicago teams. The league just doesn’t understand if they can’t see that. Which is unfortunately probably the case.
On a final note:
Oh, to hope and dream of MLS2…
A few factors that are missing from the consideration here:
1. When comparing Miami FC’s attendance to Seattle or other USL squads, please keep in mind that the team is 3 years old and plays on a pitch most high school teams take a pass on.
2. Miami soccer fans have the same problem as Chivas’ untapped fan base- they are too focused on non-American leagues. Most are too focused on following leagues from South American to Europe to care about a far less skilled team.
3. For any sports venue to succeed in the SoFla summers it would need to have the majority of the seating covered. Most of the stadium studys done by the Marlins brought this up as a major influencer.
4. The Orange Bowl site would be situated adjacent to several major mass transit routes. Lockhart was near none.
5. The ownership group of Miami FC is the same organization that runs the vast majority of the premier club and country tournaments/friendlies across the Western Hemisphere. The SSS in Miami would become a premier US location for the litany of Sout/Central American club/nat’l teams that generate revenues by playing games in the US. The city wants to tap into this revenue, and is a major chip in attracting an investor group over St. Louis and Portland.
6. Otherwise St. Louis is in basically the same situation as Miami- venue location, certain level of venue funds secured, majority investor groups lacking, and fan bases that have been neglected or targeted poorly by MLS.
Until July Miami is in the lead over St. Louis, NY2, and Portland for the race to Team 17. In late June the Miami city politicos will need to finalize the funding for the $95-115 million (tax payer funded) parking garage added on to the Marlins stadium proposal. The politicos and businessmen involved in the baseball stadium project will not want a structure considered vital to the baseball sadium’s long term success when it only accounts for 12-15% of the total project cost. Adding use to the venue by building a $50 million (the city’s contribution) stadium that will 35-40+ more days of revenue to a site (SSS + baseball stadium) that right now can only account for 81-90. So until the deadline on a decision is reached the city’s politicians will be actively pursuing an investor group to step up. If St. Louis’ investor searched were led by the gov’t and not SLU then I would consider them equals, until then it seems logical to see SLU lagging a bit.
Basically, until the end of June the momentum will be somewhat with Miami.
I forgot to mention that I hope Miami and St. Louis both get teams next. I could care less as long as they make the cut into the top 18
Rooting for St. Louis. I believe MLS needs to get another team out WEST. Vancouver, Portland, San Diego, Las Vegas … all of those sound like viable options.
Of course, I’m the fool who thinks MLS needs to go to an MLB style of divisions: East, West and Central.
(Projecting 18 teams…)
West: Seattle, San Jose, Chivas USA, Los Angeles, Real Salt Lake, Portland
Central: St. Louis, Chicago, Colorado, Houston, Dallas, Kansas City
East: New England, D.C., Philly, New York, Toronto, Columbus
Of course, if Kansas City moved, you could move that team to Miami or Montreal, Rochester, somewhere out East…and move Columbus into the Central Division.
I’ve thought this thing through way too much.
All I know is if they are not winning and competing for championships, the Miami Hurricanes in college sports, Miami Heat in the NBA, Florida Marlins in MLB, and Florida Panthers in the NHL, all play to far less than capacity crowds at their venues.
I admit I don’t know enough about Florida’s Gold Coast and if there is interest there for support for soccer, winning or losing, but I don’t have a sense it would be supported there. And this idea floated about a smaller stadium that can seat 25,000 for soccer in the same footprint as a new baseball stadium seems a fairy tale. Where exactly are people going to park? And the only transportation links near there are buses only. Wasn’t part of the reason the U of Miami finally gave up on the Orange Bowl due to not only a run down stadium but also its location and amenities like parking?
@JustAnotherOneOfYou:
re:
1) Their youth should be there benefit. EVERY MLS team had their best year in Year 1. (that may have changed for some now that the league is gaining traction) but up until a few years ago, EVERY team had their best year in year #1. So only being around for 3 years is no excuse for 950 people per match.
2) That’s a problem in every market for every team. Not exclusive to Miami or Chivas at all. It’s a proven fact (as evidenced by 2- 24 hour soccer channels on cable) that there are millions upon millions of people willing to watch the game, but most prefer foreign leagues since they are perceived (rightfully or wrongly is irrelevant) to be superior to MLS
3) covered seating seems to be the trend league wide so it makes sense the Miami group is considering that.
4) That could help, but again, I point out the Chicago Fire playing in Naperville which is WAY further out than Lockhart is from Miami that has precisely 0 public transportation from Chicago to there and is nearly 60 miles away from the city and yet they were averaging over 15K per game on a small time Div VIII college campus field. The Lockhart excuse didn’t fly then, it doesn’t fly now. If there are as many ready and willing supporters as you and some others suggest, they would have made it out there. They did in Chicago.
5) False. The ownership goup handles nothing in the US other than Miami FC since US promotions are run by SUM by mandate of the USSF. Perhaps they could try to co-market events here, but SUM is the be all end all of soccer promotion in the US since ANYTHING staged in the US between foreign nations/clubs has to be cleared through them and SUM is their agent.
6) The only thing St. Louis lacks is an investor with pockets deep enough for MLS’ (& Collinsville’s) liking. There is a package deal for a stadium in Colinsville, IL (just across the border from St. Louis) just waiting for person with deep pockets to claim it.
@MattH & Richard: I would bet with 99% certainty that we will never see prom/rel (MLS2)
No investor is going to pay $30 million to get into the game with the spector of losing it the very next year. The only way it would be semi-feasible is if they league returned their franchise fees (with interest) which I can’t see MLS forking over nearly a billion dollars to try out a pro/rel idea.
Plus the sheer geographics of it. If London has a team that drops out of the top flight, there are still 5 others to keep local interest. If Chicago or NY (or both) dropped from the top flight and was replaced by Birmingham, Alabama and Billings, Montana the TV money would plunge into the toilet faster than you could say ‘NASL’
I would bank on seeing 2 separate leagues a’la baseball before pro/rel ever gets a shot.
one other point on Miami, I’ve seen people quote the support the colleges there get and I’d like to point out how patently retarded that is.
If college support was indicative of how well a prosports team was supported then Columbus Crew would have 120,000 people a game since OSU has that kind of support. I think we can all agree that Columbus is considerably less supported than OSU.
There seems to be this arrogance on the part of the Miami faithful that says that MLS will just roll over for them because they want a footprint in the Southeast. All they have to do is guarantee a stadium and the league will hand them a franchise on God’s platter.
Sorry, Miami had their chance and blew it. If MLS decides to adds either the 17th or 18th teams to South Florida they are blithering idiots. St. Louis and Montreal are more deserving of the teams than Miami.
One reason MLS failed in Florida was because it was too soon after the Tampa Bay Rowdies and Ft Lauderdale Strikers were successes in the NASL. But then after the NASL died, both teams tried to live on in various small-time leagues (ASL, USISL), while trying to pass themselves off as the same product. Year after year in the 80s and 90s, they played on, in lower quality leagues (I say that as someone who played in the USISL), gradually alienating much of their former fan base. It’s not that people in Florida don’t care about soccer. It’s just that many feel they’ve tried it and been had. There are soccer fans in South Florida, and once upon a time they flocked to Lockhart Stadium. But today they’ll stay home and watch River and Boca on TV, but won’t go to games – Miami FC being a good example.
Yes, an accessible, 20,000 seat stadium would make a difference, but as has been mentioned, Miami is just not a good sports town. Maybe it’s the beaches and clubs, the fact there’s a hell of a lot more to do, from a recreation standpoint, on a nice day in Miami than in a place like Columbus or St Louis (sorry, it’s true). Whatever the reason, MLS, stay away.
Has anyone mentioned Raleigh? Huge growth area, lots of middle-to-upper income earners, pretty good support for their USL team.
Wow everybody here who doubts Miami is stupid!! First transportation would not be a problem because yes the location of the orange bowl is full of cuban but also is full of nicaraguencia and hondureño’s right next door to the cubiches and um if im not mistaken cuban play soccer here in Miami a lot, I know planty cubans who play good ass soccer and like it… who are walking distance from the orange bowl!! Who the hell thinks that St. Louis has a better chance of survival shut the hell up and the only reason we failed, down here was because MLS FOLDED IT DUNBASSES, not us we had a better attendance record in the last year we folded, so did tampa…. just how LA GALAXY fans support their team we will too because why it is LATIN based!! We were born with soccer shoes , you guys were born with baseballs which is smaller than a soccer balls get the joke!! Anyways if you bring a team to Miami we will sure as hell celebrate our team way better than the others do…. I give respect to Dynamo and Toronto who know how to cheer on their teams and galaxy and san jose, come on man ST. LOUIS that’s ridiculous!! That freakin sounds absurd… so what if that’s where soccer in America started, Miami is where it was mutated and produced into real soccer!! MLS brings a team here we will know how to cheer on our team because in south America its a religion not a gay ass past-time like baseball, here its just starting out!! What ever im an MLS fan and I came from Colombia, and raised in Miami and if MLS comes down here!! I bet ur ass it will survive here!! Go Miami!! bring St. Louis but definitely bring Miami, I know ill cheer ten time as hard when they play that whack ass team St Louis!! And we are a sports town, people still go to dolphins games which were 1-15 and heat games which are the worst in the league and the marlins, you will see when we get our new stadium, with retractable roof we will def. Have more attendance than ever and our name will be changed from Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins!! So please who ever talks about Miami not being sports team go live in Miami first St. Louis is whack!! Go Miami MLS!! And Go Miami FC!!!
Wow everybody here who doubts Miami is stupid!! First transportation would not be a problem because yes the location of the orange bowl is full of cuban but also is full of nicaraguencia and hondureño’s right next door to the cubiches and um if im not mistaken cuban play soccer here in Miami a lot, I know planty cubans who play good ass soccer and like it… who are walking distance from the orange bowl!! Who the hell thinks that St. Louis has a better chance of survival shut the hell up and the only reason we failed, down here was because MLS FOLDED IT DUNBASSES, not us we had a better attendance record in the last year we folded, so did tampa…. just how LA GALAXY fans support their team we will too because why it is LATIN based!! We were born with soccer shoes , you guys were born with baseballs which is smaller than a soccer balls get the joke!! Anyways if you bring a team to Miami we will sure as hell celebrate our team way better than the others do…. I give respect to Dynamo and Toronto who know how to cheer on their teams and galaxy and san jose, come on man ST. LOUIS that’s ridiculous!! That freakin sounds absurd… so what if that’s where soccer in America started, Miami is where it was mutated and produced into real soccer!! MLS brings a team here we will know how to cheer on our team because in south America its a religion not a gay ass past-time like baseball, here its just starting out!! What ever im an MLS fan and I came from Colombia, and raised in Miami and if MLS comes down here!! I bet ur ass it will survive here!! Go Miami!! bring St. Louis but definitely bring Miami, I know ill cheer ten time as hard when they play that whack ass team St Louis!! And we are a sports town, people still go to dolphins games which were 1-15 and heat games which are the worst in the league and the marlins, you will see when we get our new stadium, with retractable roof we will def. Have more attendance than ever and our name will be changed from Florida Marlins to Miami Marlins!! So please who ever talks about Miami not being sports town, go live in Miami first….. St. Louis is whack!! Go Miami MLS!! And Go Miami FC!!!
I am a native Floridian and I love Florida, BUT, Miami is a terrible choice for an MLS club. The old Orange Bowl is/was located in the Ghetto! Miami has never been a great city for supporting it’s teams. I think a team should be placed in the Southeast but not Miami. I think Atlanta, the Carolinas, or Nashville would be the best choices. If a team were to be placed in Florida then Orlando would probably be the best location. There is a growing population of Latin Americans and Europeans moving there and they could possibly work out a deal to use the Disney Wide World of Sports complex. Orlando is also redoing the downtown area and building a new arena for the Orlando Magic of the NBA. So Orlando is my choice for a Florida team. Not Miami.
I would agree. miami would be another terrible choice. They have a serious reputation as SEASONAL FANS, AND NOTHING YOU Miami yo yo say will change that fact. I am sorry, I 110% agree with FlaMLSClub as Orlando has nicer areas around downtown an alot of British tourist coming by the truck loads to vacation here while a huge amount are moving here near International Drive as well as South Americans & a great populations of Mexicans in Apopka.
Orlando was the site for the U.S. World Cup 94 for a reason and it was a great success, as well as many youth soccer leagues, CFSL, AYSO and even adult soccer leagues!! If fans like FlaMLSClub and I can establish more momentum; than in the future it can happen. So Orlando, with former Tampa Bay Mutiny fans not too far away, would make more sense.
Miami had a chance and blew it. RIP Fusion. Sorry.
Im sorry to tell you but Floridian is very very different from a Miamian, didn’t you here the news about south Florida becoming its own state because anything north from broward is whack and boring….. yea Orlando F.C. Give me a break, garbage ass dude!! Only Puerto Ricans there, go get a baseball team or something, like I said before and I will say it again go Miami MLS and go Miami F.C. !!!
Ajax America seeks MLS franchise
Ajax America, based in Tampa, Florida, has acknowledged it is actively participating in discussions to pursue an equity stake in a Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise. Ajax America, the exclusive American affiliate of AFC Ajax (Amsterdam), is pursuing an equity stake with investment groups in Kansas City, MO and San Jose, CA. The company currently operates a youth academy, conducts national tournaments and national training schools and manages a Premier Development League (PDL) team. Associating with a MLS franchise bridges the gap between Ajax and the highest level of American soccer. “Investing in a professional soccer team is the next logical step in our company’s growth plan,” stated Ajax America president and CEO Mark Dillon. “We will aggressively pursue the opportunity that meets our expansion objectives.” Rich Bradley, Ajax America executive vice president and COO, implied that establishing an Orlando-based team is a logical and ideal expansion option because Central Florida serves as Ajax America’s national headquarters and has a strong, supportive soccer community. However, Bradley added that he did not expect either the Earthquakes or the Wizards to relocate to Orlando. “Ajax explored Orlando as a location for expansion largely due to the area’s successful soccer history, including the 1994 World Cup,” stated Rich Bradley. “We still believe that the potential exists to bring a professional team to Orlando, however, at this time we have an opportunity to immediately attain our goal of an association with a Major League Soccer team in another market.” No time frame has been established to complete a deal with either investment group, Bradley added.
Miami is Ghetto, if paying $25 nightclubs, $8 dollar domestic beers and talking “oyw papi, que pasa bro-de” is COOL, then I’ll have no part in it. Central Florida has HUGE soccer players population. Drive around one of our MANY soccer fields and parks on a weekend and you’ll see lots of action as well as ESTABLISHED fans. Site of the WC 94 and SOLD OUT each game, no threat of blackout unlike some cities I know; and thank God I am not a miamian, only thing ranked number one is being MOST stressful city and worst traffic in America.
If you were educated, you’d live up here, and you’d see that we have EXCELLENT fan base in NBA and NCAA UCF Knights. 44,550 average, compare to FI WHO? 3,500 fans a game? UM fans, where they at? The Magic had no trouble having fan support and getting a state of the art arena, as well as new Citrus Bowl, performing arts, etc. I lluv ju Miami? They start to lose, opps, what Hurricane team? Why is it that the Heat, which I like, they had to suffer piss poor attendance? Why would ANYONE wanna hang out in the old OB area? How is parking going to work, and nothing changes the fact that MIA 305 blew it with the Fusion.
Don’t be surprised by the end of this year, O-town gets some serious momentum. If you knew the area more (Central Florida) you’d know that we have a huge Mexican population in the outskits of Orlando as well as European in I-drive/ Williamsburg area. So MLS would be foolish to send another team to another half empty stadium in Sunny SOBE Miami, because you have better things to do like cruise Coconut Grove and be hoodlums.
LOL
“Dave’s Football Blog”:
It’s all very well for you to lecture Miami soccer fans to support the USL Miami FC, but USL average attendance has ZERO relationship to MLS average attendance. Go compare Toronto Lynx’s attendance to Toronto FC’s.
MLS in Miami could potentially be HUGE – with the right owners and the right stadium situation. Right now it looks like FC Barcelona is exploring putting in a bid for an MLS franchise, using FIU stadium as a temporary home (rent free) until a SSS can be built on the old Orange Bowl site, as the City of Miami has been pushing for.
This FC Barcelona bid would, if it happened and if it were marketed with any kind of savy, easily turn into another Toronto FC situation, with a large fan base turning out, fans that people like you like to claim “do not exist” just because a crappy USL team, with ZERO marketing budget, playing at a run down, bush league stadium, doesn’t draw large numbers of fans (ask Toronto FC fans if they had ever heard of the USL Toronto Lynx and if they did hear of them, why they never went to Lynx games).
The MLS Miami Fusion situation also has no bearing on what is happening with soccer, today, in MIami, either.
And you people talking about the weather, or attendance in Miami in other sports, as being reasons why Miami should not have an MLS team, are beyond clueless.
“Orlando FC fan”:
The 94 World Cup matches that were in Orlando were there because of Disney’s political maneuvering: they should have gone to Tampa, which had the history of supporting pro soccer, and would have been just as big, or bigger, a success.
The Tampa Bay area is a bigger media market than the Orlando area, and has the history of supporting pro soccer. Orlando lacks that history. The Tampa Bay Rowdies will be back, in USL D1, in 2010 with their own stadium which can easily be expanded to an MLS sized SSS. If Miami is back in MLS thanks to FC Barcelona in 2011 and the USL Tampa Bay Rowdies are a success, you’ll see the deep pocketed investors group emerge to move the Rowdies up to MLS.
Orlando isn’t going anywhere in pro soccer, unless Disney steals a place in MLS from Tampa like they did in the 1994 World Cup. MLS doesn’t need their own soccer version of the Mighty Ducks. Sorry Orlando – to the back of the line with you.
“Papa Bear”:
“1) Their youth should be there benefit. EVERY MLS team had their best year in Year 1. (that may have changed for some now that the league is gaining traction) but up until a few years ago, EVERY team had their best year in year #1. So only being around for 3 years is no excuse for 950 people per match.”
Ohmyf_ckingGawd that is a retarded comment. You don’t follow anything besides MLS, do you, ie, you don’t follow USL? Sure, MLS had its best year of attendance – in 1996. That’s not a good thing: MLS has had worse attendance every year since (ie it has leveled off, at a level slightly below the 1996 level).
In other words MLS had a boost in its first year, 1996, and lower attendance ever since. That’s a BAD THING. It’s not supposed to work like that: a successful league should show steady increases in attendance, not a first year bump, followed by a twelve year plateau of stagnant attendance levels.
NEWSFLASH: that’s not how it works in USL. New clubs start out with low attendance, and then (if they survive) slowly increase their attendance in the following years. That’s because they don’t have a marketing budget (usually), and have to rely on word of mouth to attract new fans. That’s what has been happening with Miami FC: everyone likes to quote the first year attendance average, and ignore the steady increase in average attendance since then, in spite of ZERO marketing budget and in spite of playing in a bush league stadium.
“Papa Bear”:
Your other comments are equally retarded, too, and it would be tiresome to refute them point by point, however, I’ll refute a few of them.
On the stadium situation, you can’t compare a temporary situation while a SSS is being built (ie Naperville) to a permanent situation (Lockhart) nor can you compare driving 60 miles out into the countryside on an Interstate Highway, to driving 30 miles through congested South Florida urban sprawl!!!!
Also, as anyone can tell using Google maps, Naperville is only about 20 miles outside of Chicago, not 60!!!! You’re full of sh_t and I don’t know why anyone would take anything you say seriously.
In case you didn’t notice, Miami Fusion attendance was trending upwards, anyway, in spite of the stadium situation (unlike what you seem to believe, business people look at long term trends, not the first year performance).
Not that attendance had anything to do with the matter, as there were several other MLS teams with worse attendance than Miami that were not shut down, and are still in MLS today. Miami was shut down because their owner was useless and was not willing to take any more losses due to the MLS Single Entity system; at the same time, Tampa was shut down because it had no owner at all (ie Tampa was run by MLS, who were incompetent) and the rent of Raymond James stadium made it impossible for MLS to ever make money in Tampa.
As for your comments about SUM, you prove that you have simply atrocious reading comprehension. Please note that SUM has nothing to do with running “the vast majority of the premier club and country tournament/friendlies across the Western Hemisphere” – SUM runs SOME of the friendlies and SOME of the tournaments that take place INSIDE the USA – that’s it. Since when does SUM run matches in the Western Hemisphere outside the USA? Or do you think that the USA now includes the entire Western Hemisphere?
Don’t believe me? Google the Wiki for Traffic Sports and Traffic Group:
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“Traffic Sports USA, based in Miami, is the leading soccer event management company in the North American, Central American and Caribbean region. A division of Traffic Group, Traffic Sports USA has been responsible for organizing and/or commercializing most of the international soccer events in the region including the vast majority of CONCACAF’s FIFA World Cup Qualifying matches, five of the last six CONCACAF Gold Cups, the CONCACAF Champions Cup, the Under-17 CONCACAF Regional Championship, the Central American (UNCAF) Nations Cup, the Central American (UNCAF) Club Champions Cup, and hundreds of friendly matches. Formerly known as Inter Forever Sports, Traffic Sports USA was established over 15 years ago.”
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“The Traffic Group is one of the leading sports event management companies in the world. The Group was founded in Brazil over 30 years ago and continues to be headquartered in Sao Paulo. It has regional offices in Miami (Traffic Sports USA) and Amsterdam (Traffic Sports Europe). During the course of the last two decades, the Traffic Group has organized and/or commercialized most of the international matches in the Americas including: the FIFA Club World Championship 2000, Copa America, Copa Libertadores, Copa Sudamericana, the Under-17 CONMEBOL Regional Championship, the CONMEBOL Olympic Qualifying Tournaments and hundreds of friendly matches.
As the sports leader in Latin America, the Traffic Group also owns rights to other sports properties such as basketball and golf. Other holdings of the Group include 4 Rede Globo affiliates in Brazil and its own television production facility, Tv7.
Miami FC, a football club (soccer) based in Miami is part of the Traffic Group, as well as Desportivo Brasil, a new football club based in Porto Feliz,Brazil.”
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One reason Don Garbage – excuse me, Don Garber – was downplaying the CONCACAF Champions League and emphasizing the Superliga instead (apart from the fact that MLS clubs are getting drubbed out of the CCL, but managed to win the Superliga this year) was because SUM runs the Superliga, thus, the money from Superliga goes to SUM, and thus, indirectly, to MLS, whereas CCL is run (in part or in whole, I’m not sure) by the Traffic Group/Traffic Sports, and thus the money from that does not go to SUM and thus does not go to MLS.
Garber would be wise to get Miami FC/Traffic Sports to team up with FC Barcelona and get them into MLS with an MLS franchise in Miami. That way, Traffic Sports interests will line up with MLS/SUM interests, and the two could find ways to “split up the pie” amongst themselves rather than have Garber/MLS/SUM off sulking in a corner because they don’t have the monopoly on soccer promotion inside the USA, like they want to have.
But I digress. Short story: “Papa Bear” doesn’t know what he is talking about. Don’t listen to him.
“DCCavalier”:
“And this idea floated about a smaller stadium that can seat 25,000 for soccer in the same footprint as a new baseball stadium seems a fairy tale. Where exactly are people going to park? And the only transportation links near there are buses only. Wasn’t part of the reason the U of Miami finally gave up on the Orange Bowl due to not only a run down stadium but also its location and amenities like parking?”
Gee, I don’t know, call me crazy, but maybe you could, you know, follow the link in the story you were reading, and learn what is actually going on, before you call something you don’t understand a “fairy tale”:
“As far as the soccer stadium, it would cost $100 million and seat 25,000. The proposal calls for the cost to be divided between the city and MLS (or whomever owns a new Miami team). However, the main reason the city is interested in building the soccer stadium is to provide an additional funding source for a 6,000-car parking garage they will need to build for a baseball stadium as Diaz said they need 25 additional events annually for the garage to break even.”
They want the SSS built so that the parking garage can make money. MLS regular season games, MLS playoffs, international friendlies, US Open Cup, Superliga, CONCACAF Champions League, etc., will easily provide those 25 extra events they need for the parking garage to break even. Don’t you think maybe the City of Miami has learned its lesson after losing U of Miami football at the old Orange Bowl? They are rectifying the situation by adding sufficient additional parking. Problem solved.
But no, you anti-Miami folks keep believing your “fairy tale” accusations. People actually on the ground in Miami making things happen obviously don’t know what they are doing; anonymous internet soccer commentators know all!
“Papa Bear”:
If you do a quick googling, you’ll see that Traffic Sports is heavily involved in running international soccer matches INSIDE the USA. I don’t know where you got the idea that SUM had a monopoly of international soccer inside the USA; it doesn’t. Why do you think Traffic Sports is headquartered in the USA? No point in being here if they can’t run matches here.
I won’t post any links as this site doesn’t like that, but here’s a sample:
“Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:05pm EDT
The International Friendly Soccer Match Between the National Teams of El Salvador and Guatemala Proved that Central American Soccer is Stronger than Ever
The “Clasico Centroamericano” Last Sunday, July 20 at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum Broke Attendance Records
LOS ANGELES, July 25 /PRNewswire/ — Traffic Sports USA, announced today the positive results regarding the International Friendly soccer match between the Salvadoran and Guatemalan national teams held last Sunday, July 20 at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.”
lolz @ Miami…Portland Timbers. ‘Nough said.
Any chance the MLS will be coming to Alabama?
I can’t understand why Miami shouldn’t be able to produce a good soccer team, In US if you are good at a sport you will earn a lot of money or scholarships and as soccer is the biggest sport around the world there is money.
If Miami can get investors involved, and the Mayor backs a stadium effort, MLS would probably jump at the chance to establish themselves down south again in a heartbeat. i say go for it, what do u have to lose!!