Comments on: Gufare: Domestic rivalries on the international stage http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/ Exploring football culture around the world Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:11:01 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Selbstständigkeit http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-6294 Selbstständigkeit Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:51:17 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-6294 Interesting Stuff. Interesting Stuff.

]]> By: canlı maç izle http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-6291 canlı maç izle Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:50:12 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-6291 thanks thanks

]]> By: Vesselin http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3780 Vesselin Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:40:15 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3780 Palmeiras had different name until 1942 - Società Sportiva Palestra Italia . Renamed because of the Second World War and fascism. Vasco da Gama is strongly Portugese. One may think not only of 'old country' sentiments, but of colonial too. Australia demanded renaming of their strongly 'ethnic' named clubs some years ago in an effort to stop ethnic hatred disguised as support for 'our' team. You can imagine what really means nowadays a match between, say, FC Croatia and Partizan (whatever city except Belgrade). And since I mentioned fascism - Inter Milano was renamed during Mussolini years too: Ambrosiana apparently did not sound Socialist... Palmeiras had different name until 1942 – Società Sportiva Palestra Italia . Renamed because of the Second World War and fascism.
Vasco da Gama is strongly Portugese. One may think not only of ‘old country’ sentiments, but of colonial too.
Australia demanded renaming of their strongly ‘ethnic’ named clubs some years ago in an effort to stop ethnic hatred disguised as support for ‘our’ team. You can imagine what really means nowadays a match between, say, FC Croatia and Partizan (whatever city except Belgrade).
And since I mentioned fascism – Inter Milano was renamed during Mussolini years too: Ambrosiana apparently did not sound Socialist…

]]> By: ursus arctos http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3599 ursus arctos Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:39:12 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3599 Antonio is right about northern Italian emigration patterns, which is why the fans of Boca Juniors are called the Xeneizes (Genovesi in Genovese dialect); La Boca having been the port area of Buenos Aires in which many of the early Italian immigrants settled after arriving on ships that departed from Genoa. He's also right about Palmeiras (which were even owned by Parmalat before they imploded and have a history of Italian sponsors, including Pirelli). Audax Italiano are (unsurprisingly) the "Italian" club in Chile. Antonio is right about northern Italian emigration patterns, which is why the fans of Boca Juniors are called the Xeneizes (Genovesi in Genovese dialect); La Boca having been the port area of Buenos Aires in which many of the early Italian immigrants settled after arriving on ships that departed from Genoa.

He’s also right about Palmeiras (which were even owned by Parmalat before they imploded and have a history of Italian sponsors, including Pirelli). Audax Italiano are (unsurprisingly) the “Italian” club in Chile.

]]> By: Erinti http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3596 Erinti Thu, 13 Mar 2008 04:58:01 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3596 You've probably hit the nail on the head as to at least one of the causes of that; in my experience, Greeks, who have a tradition of throwing their support behind one of the Athenian Big Three if their local team is crap or nonexistent, carry their club loyalties with them wherever they go. (Olympiakos, Panathinaikos, and AEK Athens all have large and active fan clubs in New York, for example.) You’ve probably hit the nail on the head as to at least one of the causes of that; in my experience, Greeks, who have a tradition of throwing their support behind one of the Athenian Big Three if their local team is crap or nonexistent, carry their club loyalties with them wherever they go. (Olympiakos, Panathinaikos, and AEK Athens all have large and active fan clubs in New York, for example.)

]]> By: Antonio G http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3587 Antonio G Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:50:08 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3587 Great article, Spangles. A small point about ex-pats. My impression here in Canada is that the ex-pats actually can't be bothered much about club football - it's only the azzurri that get the hearts racing. I think this is because most of the Italians here are Calabrese or Siciliani and have nothing much to shout about in terms of "home" clubs. The northerners who went abroad were much more likely to go to Argentina, I think. I've no idea if they still follow "home" clubs, or if they adopt a local club in Argentina, or if they just watch Palmeiras in Brazil (traditionally the Italian club there, I believe). Great article, Spangles.

A small point about ex-pats. My impression here in Canada is that the ex-pats actually can’t be bothered much about club football – it’s only the azzurri that get the hearts racing. I think this is because most of the Italians here are Calabrese or Siciliani and have nothing much to shout about in terms of “home” clubs. The northerners who went abroad were much more likely to go to Argentina, I think. I’ve no idea if they still follow “home” clubs, or if they adopt a local club in Argentina, or if they just watch Palmeiras in Brazil (traditionally the Italian club there, I believe).

]]> By: The Liquidator http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3580 The Liquidator Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:09:03 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3580 Badminding is a term that is essentially black London slang, from what I've heard. I think it's true roots lie in Africa rather than the West Indies, but an American term it's not. Badminding is a term that is essentially black London slang, from what I’ve heard. I think it’s true roots lie in Africa rather than the West Indies, but an American term it’s not.

]]> By: Etienne http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3579 Etienne Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:26:15 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3579 Spangly, yeah, I've only heard it used on OTF. It was introduced by TG (and the speed with which it has spread shows the usefulness of the concept, I reckon) so it may be a concept that's of African origin rather than American. Spangly, yeah, I’ve only heard it used on OTF.

It was introduced by TG (and the speed with which it has spread shows the usefulness of the concept, I reckon) so it may be a concept that’s of African origin rather than American.

]]> By: SpanglyPrincess http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3573 SpanglyPrincess Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:41:00 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3573 haha Sam that's brilliant, about River fans and the shirts. I think you have all collectively demonstrated the universality of <i>gufismo</i> at any rate. Etienne, Ursus: is "badminding" an exclusively OTF thing perhaps? meanwhile pedantry is of course welcome. Il Grande Torino were on their way back from a friendly against Benfica, I think in my mind I had turned it into a competitive game. Careless. haha Sam that’s brilliant, about River fans and the shirts. I think you have all collectively demonstrated the universality of gufismo at any rate.

Etienne, Ursus: is “badminding” an exclusively OTF thing perhaps?

meanwhile pedantry is of course welcome. Il Grande Torino were on their way back from a friendly against Benfica, I think in my mind I had turned it into a competitive game. Careless.

]]> By: Sam http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/comment-page-1/#comment-3572 Sam Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:28:04 +0000 http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2008/03/10/domestic-rivalries-on-the-international-stage/#comment-3572 An interesting post, and particularly pertinent to those of us who also have an affiliation with a (big) club in another country. I've got two half-Catalán cousins, so have 'supported' Barcelona for almost as long as I have Man United, albeit in a very disconnected fashion until I discovered the delights of Sopcast and was actually able to watch their matches now and then. When Arsenal reached the 2005 Champs League final, my best friend - who doesn't even support Arsenal - was amazed to hear that on the night itself, I'd be shouting for a club I've always liked (Barca) against one I've always, if not quite disliked, then hardly felt friendly towards. I should stick up for 'our league', I was told. But first of all, the Prem is NOT 'our' league, as Game 39 has emphatically proven. Secondly I don't like it anyway. The football, for the most part, is pedestrian and the circus that surrounds it is tedious in the extreme. So when Belletti broke through the score the winner, I gave myself a very, very sore throat that lasted the next few days. Now, I just stick up for whichever team I like more, and nationality doesn't come into it. The issue arises even in international games, though. You might expect Argentines to take some pride in the fact that they had a representative on the winning side in the 2006 World Cup - even more so since Mauro Camoranesi said during the tournament that he didn't know a word of the Italian national anthem, and didn't think of himself as at all Italian in his own mind. They take more pride in the fact that the refereeing team for the final were Argentine. But then, only one of Italy's four World Cup wins (1982) has come without at least one Argentine in the team. Club-wise in Argentina, when Boca Juniors reach the Copa Libertadores final (which, so far this century, has been almost but not quite the same as saying 'when Boca Juniors play in the Copa Libertadores'), it's not uncommon to see River Plate fans attending their side's league match prior to the second leg, wearing the shirt of whichever team Boca are facing in the final a few days later. They actually go out and buy the things, despite the fact that football shirts in Argentina are considerably less affordable (as a proportion of income) than in Europe, and that in some cases - Once Caldas were Boca's opponents and indeed conquerors in 2004 - they're not by any means easy to find. Now THAT'S gufaro. An interesting post, and particularly pertinent to those of us who also have an affiliation with a (big) club in another country. I’ve got two half-Catalán cousins, so have ’supported’ Barcelona for almost as long as I have Man United, albeit in a very disconnected fashion until I discovered the delights of Sopcast and was actually able to watch their matches now and then. When Arsenal reached the 2005 Champs League final, my best friend – who doesn’t even support Arsenal – was amazed to hear that on the night itself, I’d be shouting for a club I’ve always liked (Barca) against one I’ve always, if not quite disliked, then hardly felt friendly towards. I should stick up for ‘our league’, I was told.

But first of all, the Prem is NOT ‘our’ league, as Game 39 has emphatically proven. Secondly I don’t like it anyway. The football, for the most part, is pedestrian and the circus that surrounds it is tedious in the extreme. So when Belletti broke through the score the winner, I gave myself a very, very sore throat that lasted the next few days. Now, I just stick up for whichever team I like more, and nationality doesn’t come into it.

The issue arises even in international games, though. You might expect Argentines to take some pride in the fact that they had a representative on the winning side in the 2006 World Cup – even more so since Mauro Camoranesi said during the tournament that he didn’t know a word of the Italian national anthem, and didn’t think of himself as at all Italian in his own mind. They take more pride in the fact that the refereeing team for the final were Argentine. But then, only one of Italy’s four World Cup wins (1982) has come without at least one Argentine in the team.

Club-wise in Argentina, when Boca Juniors reach the Copa Libertadores final (which, so far this century, has been almost but not quite the same as saying ‘when Boca Juniors play in the Copa Libertadores’), it’s not uncommon to see River Plate fans attending their side’s league match prior to the second leg, wearing the shirt of whichever team Boca are facing in the final a few days later. They actually go out and buy the things, despite the fact that football shirts in Argentina are considerably less affordable (as a proportion of income) than in Europe, and that in some cases – Once Caldas were Boca’s opponents and indeed conquerors in 2004 – they’re not by any means easy to find.

Now THAT’S gufaro.

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