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	<title>Comments on: Catania – Palermo, Ten Months On</title>
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	<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Pitch Invasion &#183; A Look Back at 2007 and Forward to 2008</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1872</link>
		<dc:creator>Pitch Invasion &#183; A Look Back at 2007 and Forward to 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Wilcox (Spangly Princess) explained how referees are treated in Italy, and looked at Catania-Palermo ten months on from [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wilcox (Spangly Princess) explained how referees are treated in Italy, and looked at Catania-Palermo ten months on from [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ursus arctos</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1333</link>
		<dc:creator>ursus arctos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1333</guid>
		<description>Oops.

Well, there are always the "slavish and ignorant adherence to the "English" model" and "falling over themselves to emulate rugby" angles.

Or there were . . . 

I see that Mancini and Dello Rossi have made noises about it not being a great idea.  I have a feeling we may see a somewhat less mandatory proposal come January.

I had thought about the trouble at the first Derby di Sicilia, and think is interesting to compare the Osservatorio's treatment of the Palermitani and the Fiorentini in this regard.  Both tifoserie are "usual suspects", with the Viola almost certainly having the worse reputation and more "prior offences".  And yet we appear to be allowed to go pretty much anywhere (Juve may prove to be an exception), because the Osservatorio thinks we've shown positive signs of mending our ways (having not trashed anywhere this season).  

And yet other clubs' support don't seem to be given the same benefit of the doubt (see, e.g., Palermo).   The typical Italian explanation for the differential treatment would be a combination of long-standing regional bias and Fiorentina being owned by one of the most powerful businessmen in the country (who just happens to have certain ties with the current governing coalition), whereas  Palermo are owned by a "mercurial" discount store magnate from the Veneto with a sometimes tenuous grip on reality, but I'm not sure that is the whole story.  

As I've noted elsewhere, the prefect in Florence has followed an active policy of dialogue and "constructive engagement" with the Viola ultras (while at the same time cracking down on the violent criminal fringe), and there is no doubt in my mind that he has told his superiors at the Interior Ministry that they should take it easy on the Viola in order to encourage their continued support of those initiatives.  If only his colleagues in other cities and regions would take a similarly progressive view, we might actually be on our way to making some real progress here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops.</p>
<p>Well, there are always the &#8220;slavish and ignorant adherence to the &#8220;English&#8221; model&#8221; and &#8220;falling over themselves to emulate rugby&#8221; angles.</p>
<p>Or there were . . . </p>
<p>I see that Mancini and Dello Rossi have made noises about it not being a great idea.  I have a feeling we may see a somewhat less mandatory proposal come January.</p>
<p>I had thought about the trouble at the first Derby di Sicilia, and think is interesting to compare the Osservatorio&#8217;s treatment of the Palermitani and the Fiorentini in this regard.  Both tifoserie are &#8220;usual suspects&#8221;, with the Viola almost certainly having the worse reputation and more &#8220;prior offences&#8221;.  And yet we appear to be allowed to go pretty much anywhere (Juve may prove to be an exception), because the Osservatorio thinks we&#8217;ve shown positive signs of mending our ways (having not trashed anywhere this season).  </p>
<p>And yet other clubs&#8217; support don&#8217;t seem to be given the same benefit of the doubt (see, e.g., Palermo).   The typical Italian explanation for the differential treatment would be a combination of long-standing regional bias and Fiorentina being owned by one of the most powerful businessmen in the country (who just happens to have certain ties with the current governing coalition), whereas  Palermo are owned by a &#8220;mercurial&#8221; discount store magnate from the Veneto with a sometimes tenuous grip on reality, but I&#8217;m not sure that is the whole story.  </p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve noted elsewhere, the prefect in Florence has followed an active policy of dialogue and &#8220;constructive engagement&#8221; with the Viola ultras (while at the same time cracking down on the violent criminal fringe), and there is no doubt in my mind that he has told his superiors at the Interior Ministry that they should take it easy on the Viola in order to encourage their continued support of those initiatives.  If only his colleagues in other cities and regions would take a similarly progressive view, we might actually be on our way to making some real progress here.</p>
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		<title>By: SpanglyPrincess</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1303</link>
		<dc:creator>SpanglyPrincess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1303</guid>
		<description>Ursus, how like you to pre-empt my own post on the "terzo tempo" so comprehensively by saying everything I wanted to say. *issues banning order* ;-)

The non-involvement of the Palermitani last February doesn't change the fact that in the first match last season, in October, they were quite heftily cuaght up in the fighting which led to 50+ arrests. And they have major links to the far right (at least, the brigate rosanero do). I am no advocate of blanket scattergun banning orders, lord knows, but Palermo do come more or less under the heading of "the usual suspects".

All of which said, after what happened in february even the thickest skulled hoolie wasn't about to start anything in catania last sunday... the Osservatario has a "ban first, ask questions later" philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ursus, how like you to pre-empt my own post on the &#8220;terzo tempo&#8221; so comprehensively by saying everything I wanted to say. *issues banning order* <img src='http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
The non-involvement of the Palermitani last February doesn&#8217;t change the fact that in the first match last season, in October, they were quite heftily cuaght up in the fighting which led to 50+ arrests. And they have major links to the far right (at least, the brigate rosanero do). I am no advocate of blanket scattergun banning orders, lord knows, but Palermo do come more or less under the heading of &#8220;the usual suspects&#8221;.</p>
<p>All of which said, after what happened in february even the thickest skulled hoolie wasn&#8217;t about to start anything in catania last sunday&#8230; the Osservatario has a &#8220;ban first, ask questions later&#8221; philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: ursus arctos</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1300</link>
		<dc:creator>ursus arctos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1300</guid>
		<description>There are quite a few people in Italy who share that view, Steven.  And they are not all Palermitani.

Like so many other aspects of the official response to the "trouble", the Osservatorio's use of banning orders has been both heavy-handed and scatter-shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are quite a few people in Italy who share that view, Steven.  And they are not all Palermitani.</p>
<p>Like so many other aspects of the official response to the &#8220;trouble&#8221;, the Osservatorio&#8217;s use of banning orders has been both heavy-handed and scatter-shot.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1298</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1298</guid>
		<description>I get the fact that the Lega Calcio was afraid of new riots, but i think Catania-fans have learned their lesson by now. On the other hand, it's incredibly short-sighted to ban Palermo-fans from the game, as this is a group of tifosi that doesn't have a realy violent background and wasn't even involved in the riots in February 2007.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the fact that the Lega Calcio was afraid of new riots, but i think Catania-fans have learned their lesson by now. On the other hand, it&#8217;s incredibly short-sighted to ban Palermo-fans from the game, as this is a group of tifosi that doesn&#8217;t have a realy violent background and wasn&#8217;t even involved in the riots in February 2007.</p>
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		<title>By: ursus arctos</title>
		<link>http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1290</link>
		<dc:creator>ursus arctos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/12/04/catania-%e2%80%93-palermo-ten-months-on/#comment-1290</guid>
		<description>Nicely done, as always.

What is your take on the League mandating that all clubs in Serie A and B follow Fiorentina's lead against Inter and applaud their opponents off the pitch beginning in January?

To me, it is typical of the tin ear the authorities have with respect to the issue in general, and yet another depressing example of their reflexive defaulting to mandatory legislation that will ultimately be counter-productive.

As a Fiorentina supporter for close to 30 years, I am obviously somewhat biased here, but the Viola's gesture was powerful precisely because it was voluntary, unhyped and (as far as I could tell) sincere (the club had actually tried to get clearance from the League in advance, and had been rebuffed).  

To make it mandatory immediately strips the gesture of any note of sincerity or spontaneity, and runs a very serious risk of converting what had been a meaningful sign of hope for the future into just another of the content-free bureaucratic rituals that Ms. Wilcox and I are familar with from living here.

Rather like Sepp Blatter's endless homilies to the concept of Fair Play, in fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely done, as always.</p>
<p>What is your take on the League mandating that all clubs in Serie A and B follow Fiorentina&#8217;s lead against Inter and applaud their opponents off the pitch beginning in January?</p>
<p>To me, it is typical of the tin ear the authorities have with respect to the issue in general, and yet another depressing example of their reflexive defaulting to mandatory legislation that will ultimately be counter-productive.</p>
<p>As a Fiorentina supporter for close to 30 years, I am obviously somewhat biased here, but the Viola&#8217;s gesture was powerful precisely because it was voluntary, unhyped and (as far as I could tell) sincere (the club had actually tried to get clearance from the League in advance, and had been rebuffed).  </p>
<p>To make it mandatory immediately strips the gesture of any note of sincerity or spontaneity, and runs a very serious risk of converting what had been a meaningful sign of hope for the future into just another of the content-free bureaucratic rituals that Ms. Wilcox and I are familar with from living here.</p>
<p>Rather like Sepp Blatter&#8217;s endless homilies to the concept of Fair Play, in fact.</p>
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